Horachek's impact on the team

[ZBBM]

I could have just posted this in the Carlyle thread, I guess.  But the king is dead, and long live the new king, so I thought he deserved his own thread.

Anyway, interesting article from Siegel:

The shift in communication between players and the head coach is stark. Carlyle ran the ship his way. Horachek, conversely, is looking to achieve much more of a two-way street. He?s not simply dictating to the group, but requesting their feedback and opinion. ?I encourage them to voice their opinion and open up because most of the players were kind of quiet and they weren?t talking a lot [previously.] And I wanted to encourage them to speak and to be heard,? Horachek said.

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/horachek-quickly-changing-how-maple-leafs-are-run-1.180326

 

[freer]

Well after the first two I am impressed. We will have to see whether this is a continuing tread or just a fad.

 

[herman]

I could have just posted this in the Carlyle thread, I guess.  But the king is dead, and long live the new king, so I thought he deserved his own thread.

Anyway, interesting article from Siegel:

The shift in communication between players and the head coach is stark. Carlyle ran the ship his way. Horachek, conversely, is looking to achieve much more of a two-way street. He?s not simply dictating to the group, but requesting their feedback and opinion. ?I encourage them to voice their opinion and open up because most of the players were kind of quiet and they weren?t talking a lot [previously.] And I wanted to encourage them to speak and to be heard,? Horachek said.

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/horachek-quickly-changing-how-maple-leafs-are-run-1.180326

Colour me suitably impressed, small sample size notwithstanding.

I particularly like his method of giving the team leadership a sense of ownership and giving the team an easy way to grasp the style he wants them to play:

He?s also decided to have weekly meetings with Toronto?s leadership group, a collective that includes Dion Phaneuf, the three to four designated alternate captains and Jonathan Bernier. The plan is to address the events of the previous week, look ahead to the seven days that follow and even address the schedule and what time, for instance, to hold practice on the road.
The idea behind the meetings is to institute ownership and make the players feel like they?re part of the decision-making process.

[...]

Horachek wouldn?t deny his hurried attempts to change the product, pushing for less ?cheating? toward offence and more structure in positioning in all three zones. He's talked often already about a 5-5-5 approach, all five guys working cohesively together.

I've said earlier in one of the game threads prior to our 12 game high before the downfall of Carlyle that the Leafs' success was inversely proportional to the distance between the forwards and defense in transition. A fist is far stronger than the sum strength of the individual fingers.

 

[Stickytape]

I remember a scene from one of the HBO 24/7 episodes where Carlyle is talking to the players and he asks a somewhat confusingly-worded, rhetorical question (something like "Are you a friend or enemy of complacency?") that he actually made Kadri answer. Kadri seemed pretty uncomfortable and unsure of himself, and guessed wrong. There was laughter and Kadri looked like he wanted to crawl under a rock; a few other players just looked glad they weren't called upon.

I remember it because it struck me at the time how uncomfortable everyone looked, and how poorly Carlyle handled the whole situation.  I'm glad to see a big shift in philosophy in that department, because I doubt that kind of mood was helping any.

 

[bustaheims]

I love the idea of the leadership meetings. Getting the players involved in the decision making process is the best way to get them to buy in and to get them to lean on others to do the same.

 

[cabber24]

I love the idea of the leadership meetings. Getting the players involved in the decision making process is the best way to get them to buy in and to get them to lean on others to do the same.

I don't know about including Bernier in the meetings though... after that Nelson Mandela mishap... guys a brick. I still cringe even thinking about that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I love the idea of the leadership meetings. Getting the players involved in the decision making process is the best way to get them to buy in and to get them to lean on others to do the same.

I don't know about including Bernier in the meetings though... after that Nelson Mandela mishap... guys a brick. I still cringe even thinking about that.

Doesn't really have anything to do with it considering the issue at hand involves his career and a sport he's played his entire life.  Doesn't really matter what his knowledge of world events or people is.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know about including Bernier in the meetings though... after that Nelson Mandela mishap... guys a brick. I still cringe even thinking about that.

He's the starting goalie, and that makes him an integral part of the team's defensive strategies. It's extremely important to have his input when you're doing something like this, regardless of his knowledge of world events or history - which, quite frankly, no matter how poor it is, is completely irrelevant to what his job entails. The Mandela thing was bad, no doubt about that, but it really doesn't tell you anything more than Bernier not being well versed on things outside of hockey.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He's the starting goalie, and that makes him an integral part of the team's defensive strategies. It's extremely important to have his input when you're doing something like this, regardless of his knowledge of world events or history - which, quite frankly, no matter how poor it is, is completely irrelevant to what his job entails. The Mandela thing was bad, no doubt about that, but it really doesn't tell you anything more than Bernier not being well versed on things outside of hockey.

Maybe Horachek will kill 2 birds and throw in the odd history lesson during these meetings.

 

[Kin]

I love the idea of the leadership meetings. Getting the players involved in the decision making process is the best way to get them to buy in and to get them to lean on others to do the same.

I don't know about including Bernier in the meetings though... after that Nelson Mandela mishap... guys a brick. I still cringe even thinking about that.

Yeah, I'm sure he's really out of place with Phaneuf and the other Nobel laureates.

 

[herman]

From Siegel:

?You?ve just got to get comfortable playing that way,? Horachek said of a stingier brand of hockey following a 2-0 defeat, just the third time the Leafs have been shutout this season. ?You?re going to be in more games and you?re going to take advantage of teams that don?t play that way more often because you?re playing harder. Really, it comes down to we?re working harder, we?re giving up less chances and sometimes it may feel like it?s harder [to play that way], but it?s making strides.?

Team president Brendan Shanahan circled possession and team defence as the two troubling pillars he was looking to see improved under Horachek?s direction. The earliest indications are positive on both fronts.

The Leafs have given up an average of 22 shots in Horachek?s three games behind the bench, holding the opposition to two goals or fewer in each of the past two. They?ve resembled a more structured body, stood toe to toe in that possession game, and been less prone to extended stretches in the defensive zone. They?ve also put significantly less weight on the shoulders of Jonathan Bernier.

[...]

James van Riemsdyk described Horachek as a more of an easygoing personality behind the bench as compared to the often fiery and tightly wound Carlyle.

?More of a calmness back there,? van Riemsdyk said. ?We know what we need to do and he?s great about teaching and showing guys the right way to do things and, when we make mistakes, showing it in a way that is constructive and I think guys are responding well to that.?

Horachek has offered a different perspective than Carlyle, who guided van Riemsdyk for the first 168 games of his ongoing Toronto tenure.

?Pete?s done a good job of communicating that with us and we?ve done a good job so far of buying into that," van Riemsdyk continued.  "And we just need to do that consistently and we?ll have some success. As far as communicating and knowing what to expect and being approachable, he?s great with all that. There?s definitely a different environment and feel that we have right now in the room.?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From Siegel:

?You?ve just got to get comfortable playing that way,? Horachek said of a stingier brand of hockey following a 2-0 defeat, just the third time the Leafs have been shutout this season. ?You?re going to be in more games and you?re going to take advantage of teams that don?t play that way more often because you?re playing harder. Really, it comes down to we?re working harder, we?re giving up less chances and sometimes it may feel like it?s harder [to play that way], but it?s making strides.?

Team president Brendan Shanahan circled possession and team defence as the two troubling pillars he was looking to see improved under Horachek?s direction. The earliest indications are positive on both fronts.

The Leafs have given up an average of 22 shots in Horachek?s three games behind the bench, holding the opposition to two goals or fewer in each of the past two. They?ve resembled a more structured body, stood toe to toe in that possession game, and been less prone to extended stretches in the defensive zone. They?ve also put significantly less weight on the shoulders of Jonathan Bernier.

[...]

James van Riemsdyk described Horachek as a more of an easygoing personality behind the bench as compared to the often fiery and tightly wound Carlyle.

?More of a calmness back there,? van Riemsdyk said. ?We know what we need to do and he?s great about teaching and showing guys the right way to do things and, when we make mistakes, showing it in a way that is constructive and I think guys are responding well to that.?

Horachek has offered a different perspective than Carlyle, who guided van Riemsdyk for the first 168 games of his ongoing Toronto tenure.

?Pete?s done a good job of communicating that with us and we?ve done a good job so far of buying into that," van Riemsdyk continued.  "And we just need to do that consistently and we?ll have some success. As far as communicating and knowing what to expect and being approachable, he?s great with all that. There?s definitely a different environment and feel that we have right now in the room.?

Mirtle's piece has a good graph showing some of the stark differences through 3 games: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-defensive-game-dramatically-improved-despite-latest-loss/article22423696/

The obvious caveat being, it's only been 3 games.

EDIT: And now he's posted it as an image so I can re-post it here.

 

[Highlander]

Absolutely amazing, the guys a miracle worker, why did they wait so long to change Carlyle

 

[Redleaf]

From Siegel:

?You?ve just got to get comfortable playing that way,? Horachek said of a stingier brand of hockey following a 2-0 defeat, just the third time the Leafs have been shutout this season. ?You?re going to be in more games and you?re going to take advantage of teams that don?t play that way more often because you?re playing harder. Really, it comes down to we?re working harder, we?re giving up less chances and sometimes it may feel like it?s harder [to play that way], but it?s making strides.?

Team president Brendan Shanahan circled possession and team defence as the two troubling pillars he was looking to see improved under Horachek?s direction. The earliest indications are positive on both fronts.

The Leafs have given up an average of 22 shots in Horachek?s three games behind the bench, holding the opposition to two goals or fewer in each of the past two. They?ve resembled a more structured body, stood toe to toe in that possession game, and been less prone to extended stretches in the defensive zone. They?ve also put significantly less weight on the shoulders of Jonathan Bernier.

[...]

James van Riemsdyk described Horachek as a more of an easygoing personality behind the bench as compared to the often fiery and tightly wound Carlyle.

?More of a calmness back there,? van Riemsdyk said. ?We know what we need to do and he?s great about teaching and showing guys the right way to do things and, when we make mistakes, showing it in a way that is constructive and I think guys are responding well to that.?

Horachek has offered a different perspective than Carlyle, who guided van Riemsdyk for the first 168 games of his ongoing Toronto tenure.

?Pete?s done a good job of communicating that with us and we?ve done a good job so far of buying into that," van Riemsdyk continued.  "And we just need to do that consistently and we?ll have some success. As far as communicating and knowing what to expect and being approachable, he?s great with all that. There?s definitely a different environment and feel that we have right now in the room.?

Mirtle's piece has a good graph showing some of the stark differences through 3 games: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-defensive-game-dramatically-improved-despite-latest-loss/article22423696/

The obvious caveat being, it's only been 3 games.

EDIT: And now he's posted it as an image so I can re-post it here.

Thats a pretty large caveat.

For someone who uses sample sizes to support his arguments, I'd be cautious reading into how the team is responding under the new coach after only 3 games. I might as well add this..

Wins...

Carlyle...21
Horachek...1

EDIT: What I see with the new coach, is a team playing better defensively, but at the expense of the offense they had in spades under Carlyle.

 

[Redleaf]

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't see this squad as one that has the ability to consistantly maintain above average offense and defense at the same time. At the end of the day, all these good looking analtical numbers won't matter if the Leafs can't outscore their opponents on a regular basis. That may ultimately be the reason Carlyle chose offense first, and ran with it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Thats a pretty large caveat.

For someone who uses sample sizes to support his arguments, I'd be cautious reading into how the team is responding under the new coach after only 3 games. I might as well add this..

Wins...

Carlyle...21
Horachek...1

EDIT: What I see with the new coach, is a team playing better defensively, but at the expense of the offense they had in spades under Carlyle.

Thank you for restating the caveat that I stated in my post.  Nobody is saying take long-term projections from this.  All we have is 3 games.  Anyone on this site can figure that out.  I'm not reading into it any further then "here are the differences but it's only been 3 games." 

At the expense of the offense?  They scored 5 goals their last game (1 EN), 2 the game before.  Carlyle had back to back games of scoring less than the last couple games.  The offense dried up for stretches under him.  It happens, offense is driven largely by SH%.  It goes up, it goes down.  Last 7 losses under Carlyle: 5-1, 3-1, 3-2, 6-4, 4-0, 7-4, 4-1.  Lots of 1 or 2 goal for games there.

 

[Redleaf]

Thats a pretty large caveat.

For someone who uses sample sizes to support his arguments, I'd be cautious reading into how the team is responding under the new coach after only 3 games. I might as well add this..

Wins...

Carlyle...21
Horachek...1

EDIT: What I see with the new coach, is a team playing better defensively, but at the expense of the offense they had in spades under Carlyle.

Thank you for restating the caveat that I stated in my post.  Nobody is saying take long-term projections from this.  All we have is 3 games.  Anyone on this site can figure that out.  I'm not reading into it any further then "here are the differences but it's only been 3 games." 

At the expense of the offense?  They scored 5 goals their last game (1 EN), 2 the game before.  Carlyle had back to back games of scoring less than the last couple games.  The offense dried up for stretches under him.  It happens, offense is driven largely by SH%.  It goes up, it goes down.  Last 7 losses under Carlyle: 5-1, 3-1, 3-2, 6-4, 4-0, 7-4, 4-1.  Lots of 1 or 2 goal for games there.

Fair enough. Lets hope this is the case, but my gut feeling is they won't be able to excel at both long term, especially against some of the better teams in the league.

 

[Andy007]

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't see this squad as one that has the ability to consistantly maintain above average offense and defense at the same time. At the end of the day, all these good looking analtical numbers won't matter if the Leafs can't outscore their opponents on a regular basis. That may ultimately be the reason Carlyle chose offense, and ran with it.

Give them time. If they keep outshooting their opponents and improving on their possession numbers I think you'll eventually start to see some consistent offensive output. That's what analytical numbers are for; they project what should ultimately start to happen.

 

[Redleaf]

I hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't see this squad as one that has the ability to consistantly maintain above average offense and defense at the same time. At the end of the day, all these good looking analtical numbers won't matter if the Leafs can't outscore their opponents on a regular basis. That may ultimately be the reason Carlyle chose offense, and ran with it.

Give them time. If they keep outshooting their opponents and improving on their possession numbers I think you'll eventually start to see some consistent offensive output. That's what analytical numbers are for; they project what should ultimately start to happen.

Let's hope so. I'm just very skeptical about this team playing consistently good hockey, and winning more games than they lose for any extended period of time.

Call me a pessimist in this case, but a 3 game window of better analytical hockey does not get me optimistic whatsoever.

 

[bustaheims]

It's also much easier to add offence to a solid defensive base than vice versa. It will come, and that's part of the reason why it was so important to start this process as quickly as possible. It's not really even about this season. It's about growing that part of the team's game so that, in future seasons, they have that solid base to work off of. Sustainable success comes from being responsible defensively first and foremost.