Leafs and the playoffs....

[Supernova]

So, most here would argue that this team is 2 to 3 years from making the playoffs and up to 5 or 6 years before we contend.

I don't think that is the case and I would not be surprised if the Leafs make a push this year.

Babcock hates to lose.

If the leafs are in the race after Christmas, I believe they will make a drive for it.

We have drafted well these last 2 years for sure. If we make a push, and not quite make it and end up with a 13th or close to it, it doesn't matter because the core will get us more big picks and prospects to add to an already growing prospect pool.

I know a lot of you want to tank for Mathews and others, but the lottery is not guaranteed this year as the first 3 picks are all lottery picks. Tanking could prove a disaster, mentally and financially for the leafs. Well, MLSE deep pockets, but still won't like it.

We were on our way to the playoffs last year after Christmas before the meltdown. We were 3rd best team in the NHL there for awhile.....with this core. By adding a few players via free agency or Marlies, I think a run might work.

All that said, IMO, I would stay clear of free agency and plug holes with Marlies, to give them a shot and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Frank E]

No.

 

[Redleaf]

So, most here would argue that this team is 2 to 3 years from making the playoffs and up to 5 or 6 years before we contend.

I don't think that is the case and I would not be surprised if the Leafs make a push this year.

Babcock hates to lose.

If the leafs are in the race after Christmas, I believe they will make a drive for it.

We have drafted well these last 2 years for sure. If we make a push, and not quite make it and end up with a 13th or close to it, it doesn't matter because the core will get us more big picks and prospects to add to an already growing prospect pool.

I know a lot of you want to tank for Mathews and others, but the lottery is not guaranteed this year as the first 3 picks are all lottery picks. Tanking could prove a disaster, mentally and financially for the leafs. Well, MLSE deep pockets, but still won't like it.

We were on our way to the playoffs last year after Christmas before the meltdown. We were 3rd best team in the NHL there for awhile.....with this core. By adding a few players via free agency or Marlies, I think a run might work.

All that said, IMO, I would stay clear of free agency and plug holes with Marlies, to give them a shot and let the chips fall where they may.

Yeah, I'm in the camp that thinks this team, with the same core, could certainly make a push for the playoffs next season, providing Babcock is as good of coach as his new monster contract would imply.

I'm hoping we don't go that route again though. How many incoming coaches & managers have requested another season to analyze this group, only to reach the same conclusion in the end?

We've had Carlyle, Shanahan & now Babcock express a desire to burn up part of, or an entire season, in hopes of finding a fixable solution with this group. If they allow another year of analysis, I'm guessing Babcock with determine the same damn thing. This group is hopeless.

Burn it down. Burn it to the ground!

 

[Boston Leaf]

While babcock should certaily improve things and get some to play better than they have no way will they make that trade deadline push to make playoffs. it is not about making playoffs this year. it is about the full rebuild and staying the course

 

[Kin]

You know what they say. Those who forget the lessons of history get to have a really awesome pool party.

 

[Tigger]

No.

Yeah, no.

 

[Zee]

I don't think the Leafs will be in a playoff hunt, but what if Babcock's coaching takes the Leafs out of a good lottery spot?  Let's be honest here, it would be ideal if the Leafs could land Auston Matthews.  Some reports are saying that he would have challenged McDavid for #1 overall if he were eligible this year. (he missed qualifying for this years draft by a few days)  What are the odds that 2 generational talents come around in 2 straight drafts? (3 if you include Eichel)

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What are the odds that 2 generational talents come around in 2 straight drafts? (3 if you include Eichel)

1 in every 10-ish years?

(Ovechkin/Malkin/Crosby)

 

[Kin]

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

How many years in Babcock's career do you think he got way, way more out of a roster than their talent level would indicate he might?

If we think of the Adams award as generally being about that, about a coach getting unexpected results out of a team with limited talent, then Babcock's got two nominations for it and no wins in his entire career.

 

[Zee]

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

How many years in Babcock's career do you think he got way, way more out of a roster than their talent level would indicate he might?

If we think of the Adams award as generally being about that, about a coach getting unexpected results out of a team with limited talent, then Babcock's got two nominations for it and no wins in his entire career.

Problem is the Leafs were actually competitive up to a point last season.  Once they fired Carlyle and brought Horacheck in, the team basically quit competing and fell in the standings.  I can't see that type of disaster happening under Babcock.  He'll have this team playing a sound defensive system and competing hard on most nights.  Goals will be hard to come by without Kessel for sure, but if the Leafs tighten up defensively as we're expecting under Babcock, they could win a fair bit more than we'd like for the tank.  Sad to say but i'm ready for a dead last finish and I don't see it happening.

So I just looked it up.  When Carlyle was fired the Leafs were 21-16-3.  That put them 17th overall in the league standings. 

 

[Bender]

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

How many years in Babcock's career do you think he got way, way more out of a roster than their talent level would indicate he might?

If we think of the Adams award as generally being about that, about a coach getting unexpected results out of a team with limited talent, then Babcock's got two nominations for it and no wins in his entire career.

Problem is the Leafs were actually competitive up to a point last season.  Once they fired Carlyle and brought Horacheck in, the team basically quit competing and fell in the standings.  I can't see that type of disaster happening under Babcock.  He'll have this team playing a sound defensive system and competing hard on most nights.  Goals will be hard to come by without Kessel for sure, but if the Leafs tighten up defensively as we're expecting under Babcock, they could win a fair bit more than we'd like for the tank.  Sad to say but i'm ready for a dead last finish and I don't see it happening.

Come on, the Leafs were punching above their weight class for a little while under Carlyle but the wheels were already falling off before Horachek took over. Horachek didn't cause the Leafs to lose, the Leafs caused the Leafs to lose.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't think the Leafs will be in a playoff hunt, but what if Babcock's coaching takes the Leafs out of a good lottery spot?  Let's be honest here, it would be ideal if the Leafs could land Auston Matthews.  Some reports are saying that he would have challenged McDavid for #1 overall if he were eligible this year. (he missed qualifying for this years draft by a few days)  What are the odds that 2 generational talents come around in 2 straight drafts? (3 if you include Eichel)

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

They made it to 4th worst WITH Kessel. I'm not too worried, unless Kadri somehow puts up 90 pts.

 

[Kin]

So I just looked it up.  When Carlyle was fired the Leafs were 21-16-3.  That put them 17th overall in the league standings.

When Carlyle got fired the team was at the end of a 2-8-0 stretch. So the idea that Horacheck came along and the team started losing isn't really accurate.

Like Bender said, all the indications were that the Leafs were going to come down from where they were last year. It wasn't sustainable. The fall began under Carlyle and continued under Horacheck. There was no real shift there.

Babcock won't just be able to snap his fingers and make Kadri or JVR great defensive players. What he's going to do will take time to implement and the Leafs are still a talent-poor team who just traded away their best player.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Dave Tippett is generally considered one of the top coaches in the league. He didn't do much to help Arizona last year.

 

[L K]

The Leafs aren't going to be Buffalo/Arizona levels of awful this year.  Arguably Arizona might be worse than last year based on their current roster (and depending on how well their rookies perform).

What the Leafs aren't going to be is a team that wins a lot.  I think we see a lot of close games.  We see a lot of one goal games where the tank watchers fret over the 3rd period but in the end the Leafs will lose more of those games than they win.  I think it's pretty clear that at least one or two more trades are going to happen between now and the start of the season and that will really determine just how bad the team will be.  If it's Bozak and a bottom pairing defenseman, probably not a huge change....but if it's something like Phaneuf or JVR we see the team get pretty awful.

I think Babcock's biggest impact is just going to be around building the foundations of structure at the NHL and AHL (and ECHL) levels.  The team is going to have to learn the fundamentals of his system.  It's entirely possible that Gardiner fails miserably at it.  It's possible that Rielly doesn't do well with it.  I mean Kadri might show up late to the first day of training camp and get suspended by Shanahan for 3 months.

 

[Zee]

Thanks guys, you've cheered me up and given me hope that the Leafs can be as bad as we hope.  I can't believe I just typed that.  ;D

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think the Leafs will be in a playoff hunt, but what if Babcock's coaching takes the Leafs out of a good lottery spot?  Let's be honest here, it would be ideal if the Leafs could land Auston Matthews.  Some reports are saying that he would have challenged McDavid for #1 overall if he were eligible this year. (he missed qualifying for this years draft by a few days)  What are the odds that 2 generational talents come around in 2 straight drafts? (3 if you include Eichel)

The Leafs have never had this type of player in their lineup and I want them to give themselves the best possible shot of getting him in the draft.  If that means finishing dead last overall so be it.  I'm worried though that with this team and Babcock, he'll have us finishing 6-7th worst overall and the odds of winning the lottery are slim to none.

They made it to 4th worst WITH Kessel. I'm not too worried, unless Kadri somehow puts up 90 pts.

We will need Vesa Toskala and Jonas Gustavsson.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Thanks guys, you've cheered me up and given me hope that the Leafs can be as bad as we hope.  I can't believe I just typed that.  ;D

Man, all you have to do is look at the roster as it stands.  It smells a little like Limburger.