Leafs @ Penguins - Nov 16th - 7:00 pm - CBC

[herman]

@

9-8-4, 22 points | 10-7-2, 22 points

Projected Lines

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander Hyman-Tavares-Kapanen Mikheyev-Spezza-Petan Timashov-Shore-Gauthier Rielly-Ceci Muzzin-Barrie Dermott-Holl Kaskisuo ​

Guentzal-Malkin-Rust Galchenyuk-McCann-Simon Kahun-Bjugstad-Lafferty Aston-Reese-Blueger-Tanev Dumoulin-Marino Petersson-Schultz Johnson-Riikola Jarry​

Scratches

Trevor Moore - Shoulder Martin Marincin ​

Chad Ruhwedel ​

Game Notes

TOR
?From NCAA free agent longshot to AHL starter and now to NHL backup, Kasimir Kaskisuo (6-1-1, 0.928 Save%, 2.13 GAA with the Marlies) will make his debut for the Leafs after Hutchinson was waived and loaned earlier this week
?In addition to losing the game, the Leafs lost Trevor Moore to a shoulder injury last night in an innocuous collision with Chris Wagner; he did not join the team on the road trip
?Auston Matthews (18 pts in 12 games) and William Nylander (12 pts in 12 games) continue to light the lamp, but the Leafs also continue to suffer from a dearth of depth scoring; Matthews' 14 goals accounts for 20.3% of the Leafs goals this season
?This second half of back-to-backs have not been good for the Leafs this season; this one kicks off a 6-game road trip that could be the breaking point for this season, OR the beginning of a beautiful team bonding experience WHO KNOWS

PIT
?The Penguins buckled down for life without their captain, Sidney Crosby (17GP 5G 12A) after he fell awkwardly in the game against Chicago last Saturday and aggravated a nagging injury to the point of finally undergoing the hernia surgery he had opted against this summer
?Pittsburgh comes home after getting stoned 2-1 in New Jersey the night before hoping for a better result against a floundering Leafs squad coming off its 4th loss in a row
?Though he peppered the net with 7 shots on goal, Evgeni Malkin was held off the scoreboard, breaking his 4-game point streak


Injuries

?Mitch Marner - High Ankle Sprain - Injured Reserve ?David Clarkson ?Nathan Horton​

?Sidney Crosby - Sports Hernia - Injured Reserve ?Kris Letang - Lower Body - week to week ?Patric Hornqvist - Lower Body - Injured Reserve​

Stream Options

https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLstreams
​

 

[Kin]

Pittsburgh comes home after getting stoned 2-1 in New Jersey

Hell of a road trip, man.

 

[ZBBM]

Pittsburgh comes home after getting stoned 2-1 in New Jersey

Hell of a road trip, man.

It's the only way to experience Newark, believe me.

 

[disco]

Go Leafs Go!

 

[herman]

Pittsburgh comes home after getting stoned 2-1 in New Jersey

Hell of a road trip, man.

It's the only way to experience endure Newark, believe me.

FTFY

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/mostlyleafies/status/1195739517493358595

This is the type of defense that usually goes un-noted by the broadcast, which is the origin point of a lot of casual narratives. Technically, it should be a matter of course and thus why bother pointing it out, but when actually evaluating performance, that?s why looking at the whole picture instead of just what we remember is important. Nylander did also give up the puck at the blueline a couple of times last night (Kuraly breakaway for instance), which is going to happen for every player in the league who carries it that much, so there is still room for growth.

I know the coaching staff is harder on him than most other players on the team. I believe it is because they recognize his potential can be even higher if he refines off-puck details. He can definitely carry a Datsyuk-style game of no-puck-for-you if he maintains focus throughout the shift. The plays highlighted above are not the Nylander of even 2 seasons ago but is something that has developed as a result of the coaching development Nylander has received thus far.

 

[Bullfrog]

?This second half of back-to-backs have not been good for the Leafs this season; this one kicks off a 6-game road trip that could be the breaking point for this season, OR the beginning of a beautiful team bonding experience WHO KNOWS

Only fate knows......or the master AI because the chance of us living in a simulation is so much greater than us being real.

 

[ZBBM]

Pittsburgh comes home after getting stoned 2-1 in New Jersey

Hell of a road trip, man.

It's the only way to experience endure Newark, believe me.

FTFY

* doffs tocque *

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/mostlyleafies/status/1195739517493358595

This is the type of defense that usually goes un-noted by the broadcast, which is the origin point of a lot of casual narratives. Technically, it should be a matter of course and thus why bother pointing it out, but when actually evaluating performance, that?s why looking at the whole picture instead of just what we remember is important. Nylander did also give up the puck at the blueline a couple of times last night (Kuraly breakaway for instance), which is going to happen for every player in the league who carries it that much, so there is still room for growth.

I know the coaching staff is harder on him than most other players on the team. I believe it is because they recognize his potential can be even higher if he refines off-puck details. He can definitely carry a Datsyuk-style game of no-puck-for-you if he maintains focus throughout the shift. The plays highlighted above are not the Nylander of even 2 seasons ago but is something that has developed as a result of the coaching development Nylander has received thus far.

Your subtleties are getting in the way of my preconceptions fella.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think if you cherrypick a shift you can make any point you want about any player.

For example, no-one posted a video when Nylander inexplicably coughed the puck up on the offensive blueline for a clear breakaway against in the 2nd, and made another lazy stickwaving backcheck on the same shift along the boards.

I've never seen so much effort made into trying to prove an above-average player is in fact elite.

 

[Hobbes]

I think if you cherrypick a shift you can make any point you want about any player.

For example, no-one posted a video when Nylander inexplicably coughed the puck up on the offensive blueline for a clear breakaway against in the 2nd, and made another lazy stickwaving backcheck on the same shift along the boards.

I've never seen so much effort made into trying to prove an above-average player is in fact elite.

I tend to think that's the thing about Nylander that frustrates the most...he has the capability at times to up his game into that elite level that's considerably better than your "above-average" label, but he doesn't do so with any sort of shift-to-shift consistency. He generally rates as a really good player when the puck is on his stick, or decent-to-good when he's not in his own end, but also generally seems disinterested and lazy when in the D zone without the puck. You see the plays he's capable of when he can be bothered to make them and wonder why he can't seem to bring that same intensity all the time. If he had even 50% of Hyman's work ethic he'd be a superstar.

 

[Kin]

I think if you cherrypick a shift you can make any point you want about any player.

For example, no-one posted a video when Nylander inexplicably coughed the puck up on the offensive blueline for a clear breakaway against in the 2nd, and made another lazy stickwaving backcheck on the same shift along the boards.

I've never seen so much effort made into trying to prove an above-average player is in fact elite.

It's not cherrypicking if the point being made is that it confirms what the analytics are saying.

 

[Bender]

This reminds me of the shit people gave Gardiner for years despite being a mostly very good dman. Even the best get exposed from time to time, and players who have the puck the most will sometimes make a glaring error. In the case of Nylander why wouldn't you push for growth rather than writing him off?

Underneath the surface I think we're all in agreement that Nylander is talented, but some people would rather jettison him at 23 than develop that talent. Seems very short sighted to me.

 

[Hobbes]

This reminds me of the shit people gave Gardiner for years despite being a mostly very good dman. Even the best get exposed from time to time, and players who have the puck the most will sometimes make a glaring error. In the case of Nylander why wouldn't you push for growth rather than writing him off?

Underneath the surface I think we're all in agreement that Nylander is talented, but some people would rather jettison him at 23 than develop that talent. Seems very short sighted to me.

For the record, I'm not even remotely advocating jettisoning him. Light a bit more of a fire under his keister, sure. Just don't let him become become Kessel 2.0 when he has the potential to be so much more.

 

[Kin]

I'd be pretty happy if Nylander became Kessel 2.0.

I mean, another couple of good seasons(and he's only 32) and Kessel is a serious HOF candidate, no?

 

[Hobbes]

I'd be pretty happy if Nylander became Kessel 2.0.

I mean, another couple of good seasons(and he's only 32) and Kessel is a serious HOF candidate, no?

I suppose it's possible but I'm not convinced that he's HOF material.

He was fine in Pit because you had Crosby and Malkin carrying the mail and he could rip in the occasional goal and be a serious PP threat. Look at him this year with the Yotes on pace for a 12/35/47 production, down significantly from what he was doing when buried deep in the Pens' lineup.

I'd far rather Nylander become a Pasternak or Kucherov...a much more complete player both with and without the puck. He has the potential talent for it.

 

[Kin]

I suppose it's possible but I'm not convinced that he's HOF material.

He was fine in Pit because you had Crosby and Malkin carrying the mail and he could rip in the occasional goal and be a serious PP threat. Look at him this year with the Yotes on pace for a 12/35/47 production, down significantly from what he was doing when buried deep in the Pens' lineup.

What he did in Pittsburgh isn't much different than what he did, at least scoring wise, playing with Bozak and JVR(in fact, it's probably worse) so you can't just attribute it to linemates.

If he gets to 450+ goals, 1000+ points and with two Cups(and a good playoff and international scoring record) it'd be pretty hard to justify him not being a serious candidate.

I'd far rather Nylander become a Pasternak or Kucherov...a much more complete player both with and without the puck. He has the potential talent for it.

Nylander is already good enough defensively that he's never going to be a carbon copy of Kessel so I don't think that's a real concern.

 

[herman]

I'd far rather Nylander become a Pasternak or Kucherov...a much more complete player both with and without the puck. He has the potential talent for it.

Nylander is already good enough defensively that he's never going to be a carbon copy of Kessel so I don't think that's a real concern.

Nylander is actually already better defensively than Pastrnak and Kucherov already. Really the only thing they have on Nylander is their coaches play them way more on the PP and they have racked up more points alongside Olympic-level veteran linemates. Check out his RAPM charts vs the players mentioned.

If Nylander adds a bit more of Kessel/Matthews' deception to his release, then we're cooking. I'd like him to take part of his summer training with Belfry (alongside Matthews) in addition to his usual training with his dad and brother + other Swedish NHLers because there are some minor tweaks that can go along way for someone that gets into good shooting areas so often.

 

[Hobbes]

If he gets to 450+ goals, 1000+ points and with two Cups(and a good playoff and international scoring record) it'd be pretty hard to justify him not being a serious candidate.

I suppose so. 1000+ points is probably feasible if he can stay healthy. 450+ goals seems like a bit of a stretch, so I guess if he gets there I'd be more convinced (he'd have to put up about 4 seasons at his Leaf/Pen rate to get there...at his current pace with the Yotes he'd need 6-7 years to do it). Let's just say the jury's out on it for now.

Nylander is already good enough defensively that he's never going to be a carbon copy of Kessel so I don't think that's a real concern.

I guess so. If his current production/effort is as much as he's interested in giving he'll be a perfectly fine player and probably worth every penny he's being paid. I just think he shows glimpses of the potential to be even more, and it seems like his work ethic is the factor that's limiting him. Maybe it's just my recency bias from a half-dozen recent disinterested defensive fly-bys.

 

[Kin]

Check out his RAPM charts vs the players mentioned.

Where do they carve the RAPM charts on the Cup? Above the names? Next to them?