Opening Night Roster

[sooner2220]

With the Leafs now at their 50 contract limit, unless there is a trade between now and opening night or an unforeseen development with the Bernier arbitration, this should be the roster to start the season. Excluding the first year pros, which of the current 'bubble players' on the Leafs/Marlies rosters are waiver exempt and can be sent to the minors without having to pass through waivers?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Probably easier to list the guys who would have to clear waivers. According to war-on-ice's contract page for the Leafs (http://war-on-ice.com/cap/TOR.html) Frattin, Carrick, Brennan, and Granberg are the players who will have to clear waivers to be sent to the Marlies. Beck as well, although I'm not sure how on the bubble he is.

 

[Redleaf]

With the Leafs now at their 50 contract limit, unless there is a trade between now and opening night or an unforeseen development with the Bernier arbitration, this should be the roster to start the season. Excluding the first year pros, which of the current 'bubble players' on the Leafs/Marlies rosters are waiver exempt and can be sent to the minors without having to pass through waivers?

I was expecting a line up projection..

 

[herman]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

 

[Bill_Berg]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

But you know Bozak will be 1 or 2.

 

[herman]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

But you know Bozak will be 1 or 2.

The line numbers won't matter. We have 1 first line, and 3 third lines. Whoever is going will get the minutes.

 

[Redleaf]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

Thanks Herman. Hard to comment on this lineup until we see some of the new blood play, but its an 'interesting' collection of players to be sure.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

But you know Bozak will be 1 or 2.

The line numbers won't matter. We have 1 first line, and 3 third lines. Whoever is going will get the minutes.

That is true. Not that I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bozak starts on the top line though. Make him lose it/Make Kadri win it.

 

[herman]

Let's play:

van Reimsdyk - Kadri - Parenteau
Lupul - Holland - Panik
Matthias - Bozak - Winnik
Spaling - Arcobello - Komarov
Frattin, Beck

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Marincin - Rielly
Hunwick - Polak
Robidas

Bernier
Reimer

Thanks Herman. Hard to comment on this lineup until we see some of the new blood play, but its an 'interesting' collection of players to be sure.

No problem, RedLeaf. I'm not expecting any of the Marlies to make the jump, other than Leivo and Carrick on spot duty. Everyone on my build of the roster are either trade deadline fodder (for the right deal), or salary cap anchors (willing to move for any deal).

 

[Kin]

But you know Bozak will be 1 or 2.

Why? Because Carlyle and Wilson used him that way? I don't think Babcock is necessarily required to make the same decisions they did.

Now, mind you, I do expect Bozak to see legitimate ice time with good linemates if for no other reason than they want to ultimately trade him and burying him in a checking role won't help with that but if Babcock has him behind Kadri and Holland on the depth chart? It wouldn't shock me.

 

[Bullfrog]

He was the highest scoring center on the team (goals and assists), including even strength.

I know that statement's of little value considering  the circumstances, but he can play hockey.

 

[Bill_Berg]

But you know Bozak will be 1 or 2.

Why? Because Carlyle and Wilson used him that way? I don't think Babcock is necessarily required to make the same decisions they did.

Now, mind you, I do expect Bozak to see legitimate ice time with good linemates if for no other reason than they want to ultimately trade him and burying him in a checking role won't help with that but if Babcock has him behind Kadri and Holland on the depth chart? It wouldn't shock me.

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

 

[Kin]

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

I would too, I just think you may be assuming a more hierarchical structure than there may be. The difference between a first and second line or second and third line might be pretty minimal in terms of ice time/opportunity.

 

[Bill_Berg]

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

I would too, I just think you may be assuming a more hierarchical structure than there may be. The difference between a first and second line or second and third line might be pretty minimal in terms of ice time/opportunity.

Yeah, that's another way they could go. I would be interested to know how it works behind the scenes though. Sure the ice time may be more even than with other teams, but is there really no depth chart in terms of at least labeling?

 

[Frank E]

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

I would too, I just think you may be assuming a more hierarchical structure than there may be. The difference between a first and second line or second and third line might be pretty minimal in terms of ice time/opportunity.

Yeah, that's another way they could go. I would be interested to know how it works behind the scenes though. Sure the ice time may be more even than with other teams, but is there really no depth chart in terms of at least labeling?

With no playoff mandate this year, kind of the opposite really, I'm not sure how they're going to create a depth chart of guys that are likely not going to be on the team come March.

I think the season is going to be like a long audition for bunch of these guys.

 

[Bill_Berg]

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

I would too, I just think you may be assuming a more hierarchical structure than there may be. The difference between a first and second line or second and third line might be pretty minimal in terms of ice time/opportunity.

Yeah, that's another way they could go. I would be interested to know how it works behind the scenes though. Sure the ice time may be more even than with other teams, but is there really no depth chart in terms of at least labeling?

With no playoff mandate this year, kind of the opposite really, I'm not sure how they're going to create a depth chart of guys that are likely not going to be on the team come March.

I think the season is going to be like a long audition for bunch of these guys.

You can get away with that for a year maybe, it's true, but I bet the players want a depth chart. At least the guys that are clearly NHL caliber. Guys that are borderline NHLers may be happy to play anywhere, but Bozak, Lupul, JVR will likely want a depth chart so that when negotiating future contracts, they can say they were a 1st line center/winger, etc... Or maybe they would just point at ice time, and now they can point to expanded statistics in arbitration.

 

[herman]

With no playoff mandate this year, kind of the opposite really, I'm not sure how they're going to create a depth chart of guys that are likely not going to be on the team come March.

I think the season is going to be like a long audition for bunch of these guys.

You can get away with that for a year maybe, it's true, but I bet the players want a depth chart. At least the guys that are clearly NHL caliber. Guys that are borderline NHLers may be happy to play anywhere, but Bozak, Lupul, JVR will likely want a depth chart so that when negotiating future contracts, they can say they were a 1st line center/winger, etc... Or maybe they would just point at ice time, and now they can point to expanded statistics in arbitration.

As you pointed out at the end, I think negotiations will be determined by usage and performance metrics compared to similarly aged and situated players, rather than labels in this case.

Do coaches often number their lines? Or do they build them for certain roles/tasks they want fulfilled?

 

[Britishbulldog]

His trade value is one reason. I also wouldn't say Holland is a better player, and if it's even close, I would think they'd still give it to Bozak to start the season and see if Holland can earn the bump. Same thing with Kadri, wouldn't surprise me at all if Bozak started on the top line and they had Kadri play his way into that role instead of handing it to him. Sure, preseason is still a factor, Kadri or Holland could shine while Bozak stumbles, but if I'm betting, I'm betting that Bozak is on the top two lines to start the season.

I would too, I just think you may be assuming a more hierarchical structure than there may be. The difference between a first and second line or second and third line might be pretty minimal in terms of ice time/opportunity.

Faceoff % last season:
53.2 Bozak
52.2 Smith
50.2 Arcobello
49.5 Komarov
48.3 Spalling
46.2 Kadri
45.5 Holland

http://faceoffs.net/stats/faceoff-percentage?year=2014-15&team=TOR&show_all=1&sort=faceoffs&sort_order=desc

 

[hobarth]

I'm wondering if Holland will be able to prove his value this year, he'll have a lot of competition for a center position, I've never been convinced he's a player TO should keep going forward. TO has had loads of problems the last 2 years and Holland has never given me the impression he represents any kind of hope for a better future. I expect Arcobello. Matthais and Spaling to be better potential centers than Holland, maybe even Bozak. Holland I expect to see on the wing or even waived for demotion.

I think/hope the players TO has now will not be the finished product but if it is, and it might be because of the 50 man max roster size, I expect some of the newer players are going to surprise us like Winnik and Santo last year.

JVR/Kadri/Parenteau
Lupul/Arcobello/Holland
Komarov/Spaling/Winnik
Beck/Matthias/Panik

Extra: Bailey, Frattin

Gardiner/Phanny
Rielly/Polak
Robidas/Hunwick

Extras: Marincin, Harrington

These lines are not really 1st, 2nd, etc. but like mentioned before are based on a game to game basis, I expect that some nights the Matthias line will be more formidable than the Arcobello line and therefore get more icetime.

 

[bustaheims]

You can get away with that for a year maybe, it's true, but I bet the players want a depth chart. At least the guys that are clearly NHL caliber. Guys that are borderline NHLers may be happy to play anywhere, but Bozak, Lupul, JVR will likely want a depth chart so that when negotiating future contracts, they can say they were a 1st line center/winger, etc... Or maybe they would just point at ice time, and now they can point to expanded statistics in arbitration.

Players are much more concerned with ice time than arbitrary labels. Play well and produce, and you get ice time. That should be all that ever matters. If you're good enough, you'll get that 1st line type ice time. If you're not, then you don't deserve it. What line you played on doesn't have a whole lot of influence in negotiations. It's actual, measurable stats that do.