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2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

mr grieves said:
No, it doesn’t make a lot of sense, which is why it didn’t happen that way. “GM DNA”didn’t walk away from the player; the player left the team.
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I think he did. Treliving was flirting with trading him in the media in June 2024. He did not make a great effort to stand up for him nor make it any kind of a priority to re-sign him. Then he attempted to move him at the deadline. For a player of Marner's stature and with his record, Marner's GM basically said he wasn't very important to his team through his actions and let the media fry him. Marner took the harsh hint. Marner wasn't going to hang around where his GM didn't really want him. If Dubas or another NHL GM was around, Marner would probably still be in Toronto.
 
Bender said:
Im

I'm not reading your treatise on the most important player of all time. Sorry.
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How could you draw that conclusion if you didn't read it?

Marner will never be regarded anything close to that. But Treliving's handling of Marner is likely be in his Leafs GM epitaph as a significant error taking a crowbar to a roster of a team that was one win away from beating the Cup champs.
 
cw said:
I think he did. Treliving was flirting with trading him in the media in June 2024. He did not make a great effort to stand up for him nor make it any kind of a priority to re-sign him. Then he attempted to move him at the deadline. For a player of Marner's stature and with his record, Marner's GM basically said he wasn't very important to his team through his actions and let the media fry him. Marner took the harsh hint. Marner wasn't going to hang around where his GM didn't really want him. If Dubas or another NHL GM was around, Marner would probably still be in Toronto.
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Everything that you take as evidence that Treliving wanted rid of Marner is what any GM would do when he’s given reason to believe a player isn’t interested in coming back. Your account starts much too late (the better reporters who spend time around the team noted that Marner was "over" playing for Toronto after the 2023 playoffs, which pretty well aligns with Marner's account of when things started to "go south") and omits some key events (a meeting with Marner's agents in spring 2024; a giant contract offer before trying to move him at the deadline).

But there's no need to hash out a timeline of slights and rebuffs. Here are how three players, at locker clean out day the spring before they could sign a new contract, responded to questions about (a) whether they wanted to be in Toronto long term and (b) how/when a contract would get done:

I love it here, I don’t want to be anywhere else, and this is where I want to win… I have a full year, and uhm I mean obviously I want to stay here and my uh it would be nice to if we could sort that out
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My intention is to be here. I think I have [garbled] that before, how much I enjoy playing here and what it means to me — the organization, my teammates, and how much I enjoy being here…. It [the contract] will all kind of work itself out in due time. It will go from there. As far as everything else goes, as I have said before, I really do enjoy playing here. It is a true honour. The work that we are putting into continuing to strive for that end result is extremely motivating.
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Yeah I mean that’d be a goal. I’ve expressed my love for this place, the city, obviously I’ve grown up here so um you know we’ll start thinking about that now and you know trying to figure something out.
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If I were managing a team, one of these answers would make me pretty concerned.
 
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cw said:
How could you draw that conclusion if you didn't read it?

Marner will never be regarded anything close to that. But Treliving's handling of Marner is likely be in his Leafs GM epitaph as a significant error taking a crowbar to a roster of a team that was one win away from beating the Cup champs.
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We were fortunate to score some quick goals in the first two games against Florida then they made the adjustments and shut us down...again, 9 years of being shut down, over and over and over and over and.... this team needed a crowbar and that's a fact, fingers crossed we find/found someone to feed Matthews in the playoffs and not get shut down, again.
 
cw said:
How could you draw that conclusion if you didn't read it?

Marner will never be regarded anything close to that. But Treliving's handling of Marner is likely be in his Leafs GM epitaph as a significant error taking a crowbar to a roster of a team that was one win away from beating the Cup champs.
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I'm not relitigating anything with Marner and the post was far too long.
 
mr grieves said:
Everything that you take as evidence that Treliving wanted rid of Marner is what any GM would do when he’s given reason to believe a player isn’t interested in coming back.

Here’s three players at locker clean out day, responding to questions about whether they wanted to be in Toronto long term and how/when a contract would get done:







If I were managing a team, one of these would make me pretty concerned
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“When you’re trying to plan the next three, four, seven, nine years of your life, you don’t just dream it up in one day, you take your time, talk it over, think about it some more, talk it over again. It’s not something that I take lightly, it’s not something that my family takes lightly. I’ve put everything I have into my career, just like everybody here. You only get one chance to do it and to do it right and that leads to taking your time with it and that’s where it’s at.”

That quote concerned a lot of Oilers fans and management. But it speaks for every UFA and things they have to consider including Marner.

After Marner declared he wanted to remain in Toronto, quotes like this concerned Marner and his agent:
“Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing. If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”
It was said before Marner was in his last year of his deal - before serous negotiations could get underway.
Treliving floated trading Marner which triggered a media circus and helped to turn the fans and media against him. And then he eventually tried to trade him to Carolina (that we know about). Why should a talent like Marner commit to a GM who isn't 100% behind him playing for the Leafs?

If Stan Bowman said something like that about his situation with Connor McDavid, he probably wouldn't be signing anyone to a contract in Edmonton much longer.

Here's Treliving's track record on losing top talent:
Gaudreau
Tkachuck
Bennett
Marner
Isn't that concerning?

When Matthews reflects on McDavid's words less than two years from now, looks at the Leafs aged roster and shallow prospect pool with few picks, odds are his Cup chances are not great and he becomes a 5th departing top talent on Treliving's record. Isn't that concerning?
 
cw said:
Here's Treliving's track record on losing top talent:
Gaudreau
Tkachuck
Bennett
Marner
Isn't that concerning?
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Bennett played 6 seasons in Calgary and never once hit (or would have been projected to hit) 20 goals or 40 points in a season. He was then traded away, after lots of opportunity to produce. Not exactly concerning.

As for the first two guys on your list...well...it's Calgary...I'd put more onus on that than whoever the GM was (Tkachuck also raved about Treliving, for whatever that's worth). And further to that point, both of them were two American guys who wanted to play in the US. Again, I have a hard time finding that "concerning."

So essentially we have Marner leaving. If you want to blame that squarely on Treliving, go ahead, but everything anyone has written on this saga (other than the former's agent) suggests there were many, many other extenuating factors, dating way back to LL and Babcock.
 
cw said:
After Marner declared he wanted to remain in Toronto, quotes like this concerned Marner and his agent:
“Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing. If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”
It was said before Marner was in his last year of his deal - before serous negotiations could get underway.
Treliving floated trading Marner which triggered a media circus and helped to turn the fans and media against him. And then he eventually tried to trade him to Carolina (that we know about). Why should a talent like Marner commit to a GM who isn't 100% behind him playing for the Leafs?
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I don’t agree that Marner declared he wanted to stay in Toronto. Willy and Matthews did. Marner said he grew up here.

And I think Treliving had more insight than we can glean from Marner’s clean out quote, as he’d met with him for year-end meetings and had met with Ferris before that pre-draft quote. All those add up something that had been reported by those close to the team: Marner wasn’t interested to keep playing in Toronto by the time Treliving got here.

cw said:
Here's Treliving's track record on losing top talent:
Gaudreau
Tkachuck
Bennett
Marner
Isn't that concerning?

When Matthews reflects on McDavid's words less than two years from now, looks at the Leafs aged roster and shallow prospect pool with few picks, odds are his Cup chances are not great and he becomes a 5th departing top talent on Treliving's record. Isn't that concerning?
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Yes, it is! Part of that record may be Calgary and Marner specific, but the Leafs are in a tough spot in their window. It could definitely go south fast.
 
Andy007 said:
Bennett played 6 seasons in Calgary and never once hit (or would have been projected to hit) 20 goals or 40 points in a season. He was then traded away, after lots of opportunity to produce. Not exactly concerning.

As for the first two guys on your list...well...it's Calgary...I'd put more onus on that than whoever the GM was (Tkachuck also raved about Treliving, for whatever that's worth). And further to that point, both of them were two American guys who wanted to play in the US. Again, I have a hard time finding that "concerning."

So essentially we have Marner leaving. If you want to blame that squarely on Treliving, go ahead, but everything anyone has written on this saga (other than the former's agent) suggests there were many, many other extenuating factors, dating way back to LL and Babcock.
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This is why I can't read CWs posts on Marner anymore. There's different interpretations of how things went down but the adamant blame on everyone except the Marner camp repeatedly just isn't worth my time.

A great AP quote on the Stolarz deal: "It goes without saying that when a player and organization both want a deal done, they generally find a resolution." Yup. And it speaks volumes that he wouldn't take $13M but took less to only go to Vegas and not bother going to free agency. His mind was clearly made up long ago. "But Marner said he wanted to stay." Platitudes and talk is cheap.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
Barring a last minute change of heart, sure seems like Cowan is going to be making the team for game 1. Not sure how I feel about that. He's no doubt had a good camp but I still think playing top all-situations minutes with the Marlies even for a few months would be better than starting your pro career on a 4th line.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1972717660430270888
The 20-year-old is quick to note he cracked the London Knights in 2022 as a bottom-sixer before developing into a Memorial Cup MVP. He made that pitch to Berube: Start me on Line 4. Let me earn my promotions.

“It’s something you could do here as well,” Cowan says. “Start in the bottom six and you can always work your way up. Whether I’m in the bottom six or top six, I can bring something to the table, whether that’s finishing checks, power play, penalty kill. I’m a good overall player and can play anywhere in the lineup.”
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Bender said:
This is why I can't read CWs posts on Marner anymore. There's different interpretations of how things went down but the adamant blame on everyone except the Marner camp repeatedly just isn't worth my time.

A great AP quote on the Stolarz deal: "It goes without saying that when a player and organization both want a deal done, they generally find a resolution." Yup. And it speaks volumes that he wouldn't take $13M but took less to only go to Vegas and not bother going to free agency. His mind was clearly made up long ago. "But Marner said he wanted to stay." Platitudes and talk is cheap.
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That's it in a nutshell - actions speak louder than words. Marner may have said he wanted to stay, but many of his actions over the course of the last year and a half point to a player with one foot out the door. It was clear early in the season something was off with him - not so much in his play on the ice, but with his demeanor. He wasn't enjoying being here anymore. Add in the fact that many reports have him not being open to much negotiation about an extension, and, well, any quotes or statements about wanting to stay just look like meaningless platitudes basically every prominent player on an expiring contract puts out there. He'd wanted out for some time - regardless of his media-trained statements to the contrary - and made sure the opportunity to jump ship would be there for him. Treliving clearly got a similar impression, which influenced his statements on the situation, not the other way around.
 
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