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2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

I'm from the 80s so conference finals runs have been my peak. I definitely appreciate the regular season success more than I would have a decade ago. This is all entertainment. Watching a good team that falls short is still more enjoyable than being a Columbus or Buffalo.

I know that this is likely over and that there probably isn't a way to retool this team given the lack of prospects and draft picks on the horizon. I just want to see the franchise go down fighting and instead they seem to just be stubborn about how Treliving/Pelley like Bérubé.

The flaws were there last year. They are horribly exposed this year and we sit here and do nothing
 
ZBBM said:
The sad part is that if they rebuild the very best you could hope for is that they bat 1.000 on a bunch of top 10 picks, that is, all of which pan out, over the next X years (Matthews, Marner, Rielly yes Rielly, Nylander) and then you'd be back where we were when it all looked so bright 8 or 9 years ago. At best.

Here's how I'm looking at this: I got to see Sundin and his teams play. I got to see the Core 4 play all kinds of superfun hockey. I very likely won't live long enough to see anything nearly this good again.

I'm grateful for all the fabulous regular season hockey I got to see. Lots of fans don't even get to see that.
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If we could get back to being where we were 8 or 9 years ago, it would be great. You can't ask for more than that. That those particular players couldn't win is a combination of bad luck and then not being quite good enough, but with a little more good luck, they could have won one.
 
I don't know. I think whatever malaise this team has had since the 60's isn't going away anytime soon. I will likely die without seeing the Leafs in a Stanley Cup finals. There are worse fates. But in a life where we have finite time, and that is my goal when I watch the team, I have to question the point of watching now.

As I said, I am done for the next bit. I don't like watching when the team I am cheering for is outclassed most nights, and based on the fact that the organization has said nothing, has no plan, and doesn't know what to do, I do have much hope that anything is going to right itself anytime soon.

Maybe we'll chat again sometime.
 
If all teams in the original 6 had an equal chance to win a Cup (and they arguably didn't because Montreal and Toronto had territorial advantages), then each team had a 1 in 6 chance or a 16.7% chance to win a Cup each season.
In a 32 team league, that drops to a 3% chance.
With parity (the cap) and four rounds, a good team like the Leafs 4th place team last year had an 8 to 10% chance to win it all.
The generic chance a team in the 6 team league didn't win a Cup in the next 20 years was about 7%
The generic chance a team in the 32 team league doesn't win a Cup in the next 20 years is about 53%. The generic chance they do win is about 47%

The generic chance a team in the 32 team league doesn't win a Cup in the next 83 (rough life expectancy) years is about 7%

If team management is below average, those numbers get worse for that team's fans.
They'll also decline with more expansion.
 
While this season is clearly a write-off, I don't think we're at blow it up and rebuild territory, yet. I think we need to see what this group can do under a different coaching staff that brings a playing style that does more to emphasize the roster's strengths rather than trying to minimize their weaknesses.

That being said, unless they can really turn things around between now and the Olympic break, the team needs to take this opportunity to restock the cupboard and add future assets. I've been thinking about it some, and I break the lineup down into these tiers regarding trades at the deadline (with the understanding that a) I'm not on team blow it up and b) the deadline isn't the best time to make the big deals any way - that's better done around the draft and the beginning of the offseason).

Virtually Untouchable
Cowan, Knies, Woll

Would Need to be Blown Away
Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Tanev

Willing to Move, but Would Take an Overpayment/Can't Say No type deal
McCabe, OEL, Stolarz, Rielly, Hildeby, most prospects 23 and under

Open to Moving, but not Rushing to Deal
Roy, Lorentz, Robertson, Rifai, older prospects

Gone to the Highest Bidder (due to contract status or need to move on)
Maccelli, Joshua, Jarnkrok, Laughton, McMann, Carlo, Mermis, Stecher, AHL vets

Please Take Them
Domi, Myers, Benoit, Thrun

I recognize that this probably isn't going to bring back the highest value in terms of assets, but I also don't think a full blown fire sale is in the cards or in the best interest of the team. I fear that will put them into a Sabres style never ending rebuild, and, well, no one should want that. If things don't improve under a new coach and/or into next season, then you look at more of a major overhaul, but, for now, I think we look at this season as a bit of an aberration. A change in philosophy from the front office and the coaching staff could be what has the biggest impact, and that's where I'd start. Completely change the coaching staff, bring in a new GM, and see if that helps the core of this group bounce back enough.
 
bustaheims said:
While this season is clearly a write-off, I don't think we're at blow it up and rebuild territory, yet. I think we need to see what this group can do under a different coaching staff that brings a playing style that does more to emphasize the roster's strengths rather than trying to minimize their weaknesses.

That being said, unless they can really turn things around between now and the Olympic break, the team needs to take this opportunity to restock the cupboard and add future assets. I've been thinking about it some, and I break the lineup down into these tiers regarding trades at the deadline (with the understanding that a) I'm not on team blow it up and b) the deadline isn't the best time to make the big deals any way - that's better done around the draft and the beginning of the offseason).

Virtually Untouchable
Cowan, Knies, Woll

Would Need to be Blown Away
Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Tanev

Willing to Move, but Would Take an Overpayment/Can't Say No type deal
McCabe, OEL, Stolarz, Rielly, Hildeby, most prospects 23 and under

Open to Moving, but not Rushing to Deal
Roy, Lorentz, Robertson, Rifai, older prospects

Gone to the Highest Bidder (due to contract status or need to move on)
Maccelli, Joshua, Jarnkrok, Laughton, McMann, Carlo, Mermis, Stecher, AHL vets

Please Take Them
Domi, Myers, Benoit, Thrun

I recognize that this probably isn't going to bring back the highest value in terms of assets, but I also don't think a full blown fire sale is in the cards or in the best interest of the team. I fear that will put them into a Sabres style never ending rebuild, and, well, no one should want that. If things don't improve under a new coach and/or into next season, then you look at more of a major overhaul, but, for now, I think we look at this season as a bit of an aberration. A change in philosophy from the front office and the coaching staff could be what has the biggest impact, and that's where I'd start. Completely change the coaching staff, bring in a new GM, and see if that helps the core of this group bounce back enough.
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Yeah, this is what I think. Shut Matthews and Tanev down to see if they can resolve their injuries, aim for that top 5 pick, collect some long needed late firsts and prospects by trading out a lot of secondary pieces. I think some of the really well run teams we envy have had a down year here or there before moving back into contention. Unless Matthews is permanently diminished by chronic injury, that shouldn’t so unobtainable for the Leafs
 
In less than a year, like Quinn Hughes, the Leafs GM is going to go to Matthews and ask "do you want to re-sign here?"
Why would Matthews stay? He's American paying CDN taxes. He wants to win a Cup. He's already starting to get ripped in the media. The team farm system is barren and draft picks depleted. It doesn't matter to Matthews if they get a bunch of picks at the deadline because it will be years before they can help. The dmen of substance are all 32 or older by that time (if Tanev is still playing ..). Tavares is turning 37. It is very unlikely the roster will truly/credibly contend for a Cup any time soon. So does the GM wait to get a 3/4 line center? Or does he try to recover what he can (won't be as much as Hughes ..). The GM is likely going to have little choice. Matthews is going to decide it. I really doubt he will hang around.

As for this season, sure, try another coach. They have little to lose. If the turn around isn't substantial, start the sell off.
 
princedpw said:
Do we have our 1st round pick this year (next year?)
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Per Puckpedia: it is conditionally traded to BOS for Carlo, unless we pick in the Top 5

Top 5 protected, slides to 2027. The 2027 pick goes to Philadelphia (as part of Laughton trade) if it is outside the top 10, which converts this pick to Boston to a 2028 unprotected 1st Round Pick. If this Pick slides to 2027 and is in the top 10, TOR can either transfer it to BOS to satisfy this trade and then give PHI the 2028 unprotected, or transfer it to PHI and give BOS the 2028 unprotected 1st Round Pick.
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cw said:
In less than a year, like Quinn Hughes, the Leafs GM is going to go to Matthews and ask "do you want to re-sign here?"
Why would Matthews stay? He's American paying CDN taxes. He wants to win a Cup. He's already starting to get ripped in the media. The team farm system is barren and draft picks depleted. It doesn't matter to Matthews if they get a bunch of picks at the deadline because it will be years before they can help. The dmen of substance are all 32 or older by that time (if Tanev is still playing ..). Tavares is turning 37. It is very unlikely the roster will truly/credibly contend for a Cup any time soon. So does the GM wait to get a 3/4 line center? Or does he try to recover what he can (won't be as much as Hughes ..). The GM is likely going to have little choice. Matthews is going to decide it. I really doubt he will hang around.

As for this season, sure, try another coach. They have little to lose. If the turn around isn't substantial, start the sell off.
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Yep either he'll go try to win elsewhere, or he's never going to be that great player again. Boned! Maybe they sign McDavid and Matthews stays for that!
 
bustaheims said:
While this season is clearly a write-off, I don't think we're at blow it up and rebuild territory, yet. I think we need to see what this group can do under a different coaching staff that brings a playing style that does more to emphasize the roster's strengths rather than trying to minimize their weaknesses.

That being said, unless they can really turn things around between now and the Olympic break, the team needs to take this opportunity to restock the cupboard and add future assets. I've been thinking about it some, and I break the lineup down into these tiers regarding trades at the deadline (with the understanding that a) I'm not on team blow it up and b) the deadline isn't the best time to make the big deals any way - that's better done around the draft and the beginning of the offseason).

Virtually Untouchable
Cowan, Knies, Woll

Would Need to be Blown Away
Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Tanev

Willing to Move, but Would Take an Overpayment/Can't Say No type deal
McCabe, OEL, Stolarz, Rielly, Hildeby, most prospects 23 and under

Open to Moving, but not Rushing to Deal
Roy, Lorentz, Robertson, Rifai, older prospects

Gone to the Highest Bidder (due to contract status or need to move on)
Maccelli, Joshua, Jarnkrok, Laughton, McMann, Carlo, Mermis, Stecher, AHL vets

Please Take Them
Domi, Myers, Benoit, Thrun

I recognize that this probably isn't going to bring back the highest value in terms of assets, but I also don't think a full blown fire sale is in the cards or in the best interest of the team. I fear that will put them into a Sabres style never ending rebuild, and, well, no one should want that. If things don't improve under a new coach and/or into next season, then you look at more of a major overhaul, but, for now, I think we look at this season as a bit of an aberration. A change in philosophy from the front office and the coaching staff could be what has the biggest impact, and that's where I'd start. Completely change the coaching staff, bring in a new GM, and see if that helps the core of this group bounce back enough.
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I did say blow it up a few days ago, but I think this is kind of the right method.

But yes. Coach and GM HAVE to go first.

I’d rather recoup prospects than picks I think if that were possible.

I haven’t looked at contract status/cap space and next seasons potential available free agents. But I’d try and clear as much cap space as possible to have as many options as possible to fill out the roster next season in the vision of the new GM.
 
Bill_Berg said:
Yep either he'll go try to win elsewhere, or he's never going to be that great player again. Boned! Maybe they sign McDavid and Matthews stays for that!
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But it is the same issue for McDavid. He wants to win a Cup. Do the Leafs give him a good shot at that? With them floundering, does anyone think that will help them land UFAs this summer or entice players to relinquish their no trade clause? Maybe it is just me but I sure don't. With Marner's departure, Matthews injury and probably Tanev's injury, this collection of talent is receding. It is sad. I was hoping for a couple of more runs. I'm down to hoping a coaching change can get one last hurrah.
 
cw said:
But it is the same issue for McDavid. He wants to win a Cup. Do the Leafs give him a good shot at that? With them floundering, does anyone think that will help them land UFAs this summer or entice players to relinquish their no trade clause? Maybe it is just me but I sure don't. With Marner's departure, Matthews injury and probably Tanev's injury, this collection of talent is receding. It is sad. I was hoping for a couple of more runs. I'm down to hoping a coaching change can get one last hurrah.
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It's possible, but unlikely. If McDavid did win one in Edmonton, maybe he'd just want to play at home. Would only work out of Matthews returned to greatness. Maybe the Leafs can recoup some picks and prospects this year to reload in 2028-2029.

The biggest reason I am advocating for a full rebuild is that I think Matthews is done being the player he once was. How long has it been? He's only getting older. Maybe another reason Marner left, he knew Matthews wasn't going to return to form.
 
The PP is dreadful and he should go. If only we knew who employed him on their staff and has the team getting filled in every game
 
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