2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[Kin]

I don't know about robbed but I think Halladay was the more deserving pitcher.  Kershaw lead the NL in wins, ERA, strikeouts, WHIP.  He also had a 4.59 K:BB ratio, gave up fewer than 7 hits/9 innings, pitched 233 innings, and had a WAR of 7.0.  There are really only minor differences in their numbers.  Roy was .05 below in ERA, gave up more hits, but had more complete games, had the best ERA+ in the NL, had the best K:BB ratio at 6.63!, and had the best WAR at 7.4.

I think you kind of hit on, though, why I think Doc was if not robbed(and my playful spelling of "was" there was indication of some sort of joke-yness) at least undervalued. If Kershaw had a lower ERA, why did Doc have a lower ERA+. Well, Park Factor clearly. Doc pitched in Philly's tiny park, Kershaw pitched in big Dodger Stadium. Doc pitched in the NL's toughest division, Kershaw pitched in baseball's worst division(that also had it's fair share of pitcher's parks)

So putting up very similar numbers actually works to Doc's advantage quite a bit. Like you point out, BR's WAR has him up by about half a win but Fangraph's WAR has him up by 1.4.

I just think it's a little funny that Doc is the guy who the numbers favour and yet Kershaw got the overwhelming majority of support here. I think it's a little unfortunate, especially after Hernandez' big win last year.

 

[Kin]

Just saw the new uniforms. I'm mixed. I was definitely hoping for more of an actual attempt to come up with something classic as opposed to just reaching back into the glory days of the club and going with them.

That said, they're clean, they do have that connection to when the club was good and I like the new logo more than  just about any they've had before.

The one thing I'd be strictly negative about are the hats. Leaving aside that the logo looks way too big on them I'm not a big fan of hats with graphics on them anyway. I think all of the great baseball hats are just letters. It's a shame as I like baseball hats but I'll probably still stick with the Brooklyn Dodgers when it comes to them.

edit: just saw a better photo of the alternate home blues. They're effin' sharp. The rest still stands.

 

[maplesyrup]

Cole Kimball, we hardly knew ya... Claimed back by the Nationals as we also claim Andrew Carpenter off waivers from the Padres.

 

[Darryl]

Finally a uniform worth buying again.

 

[hockeyfan1]

All the new uniforms look fantastic but Dear Santa, please bring me a "blue" alternate jersey w/cap. OMG is that ever sharp. "The blue is back in Blue Jays!"

Very nice, very classy, very stylish, and, somewhat
'nostalgic' --  I remember all those early, early years,
the Jays' inaugural uniforms in their first year at now
defunct Exibition Stadium, etc., etc. --  ah, yes, these
bring back some memories of yesteryears gone by.

Very happy the Blue Jays will now be looking good again! 

 

[hockeyfan1]

Proud Blue Jays....


http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2011/11/18/top_jays_unis/

"They look sharp. From my own perspective, when you think of the Toronto Blue Jays there was a certain font, and certainly a colour that came to mind,? said John Farrell. ?It?s a fresh look, it?s a new look, yet it?s one that links us to a time when this was the place to be. We?re hoping and working towards being that place again in Major League Baseball.

I think it?s special,? said Romero. ?Obviously we don?t just represent Toronto, we represent all of Canada. To have it, we wear it with pride. It?s special to us.

Bautista: ?George Bell was here, Tony Fernandez, Juan Guzman, Damaso Garcia, even some of the teams that didn?t win the championship, (the Blue Jays) still had a huge presence from the Domincan and Latins overall,? he said. ?We have something similar to that going on right now with myself and Edwin and Ricky and J.P. (Arencibia) and Yunel (Escobar), so it?s great. We love these uniforms and we think they look perfect.?

So do we, Jose! 

 

[maplesyrup]

So how do folks feel about the Cy Young winner also being the MVP? I guess we'll see how baseball feels about that @ 2 pm.  :-\ 

 

[bustaheims]

So how do folks feel about the Cy Young winner also being the MVP? I guess we'll see how baseball feels about that @ 2 pm.  :-\

When they have a year like Verlander did, I'm okay with it.

 

[maplesyrup]

So how do folks feel about the Cy Young winner also being the MVP? I guess we'll see how baseball feels about that @ 2 pm.  :-\

When they have a year like Verlander did, I'm okay with it.

I have mixed feelings. I suppose though I might not care if Bautista wasn't in the running.

 

[maplesyrup]

Verlander... Damn.

 

[Deebo]

He won with 280 points Ellsbury second with 241, Jose third with 230.

Verlander got 13 of 28 first place votes.

 

[bustaheims]

He won with 280 points Ellsbury second with 241, Jose third with 230.

Verlander got 13 of 28 first place votes.

Ellsbury finishing 2nd bothers me a lot more than Verlander winning. Don't get me wrong, Ellsbury had a great season, but he was not the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

 

[Kin]

So how do folks feel about the Cy Young winner also being the MVP? I guess we'll see how baseball feels about that @ 2 pm.  :-\

When they have a year like Verlander did, I'm okay with it.

Yeah, I mean, comparing the WAR of pitchers to position players is tricky but Verlander did tie Bautista according to BR at 8.5 for the league lead so it's hard to argue too much with the choice(although fangraphs has Bautista over Verlander 8.3 to 7.0)

So it was a toss-up. Verlander fit the narrative better, he won the award. Not much to complain about.

 

[Kin]

Ellsbury finishing 2nd bothers me a lot more than Verlander winning. Don't get me wrong, Ellsbury had a great season, but he was not the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

He did finish 3rd in BR's WAR though, so it's not that far off. Really, the top five is pretty good with the exception of Granderson.

 

[Peter D.]

Ellsbury finishing 2nd bothers me a lot more than Verlander winning. Don't get me wrong, Ellsbury had a great season, but he was not the 2nd most valuable player in the league.

I hope Ellsbury finishing 2nd puts to bed the whole notion by many that the MVP should not come from a non-playoff team, especially considering he was part of the worst collapse in MLB history.

 

[Kin]

I hope Ellsbury finishing 2nd puts to bed the whole notion by many that the MVP should not come from a non-playoff team, especially considering he was part of the worst collapse in MLB history.

I'd share that hope but I think the fact that he finished above Bautista probably provides the counter balance to that. I don't know if there's a credible way to look at the seasons the two guys had and vote for Ellsbury over Bautista if you're not heavily influenced by the team's respective places in the standings. It's also probably worth mentioning that while the Sox collapsed, Ellsbury was spectacular in September.

Anyway, I'd guess that if guys on non-playoff teams winning the award didn't kill the ridiculous notion you're talking about nothing probably will. Some people are just always going to care about pitcher wins.

 

[Derk]

I'm okay with Verlander winning, and I am happy with Bautista finishing 3rd.

Ellsbury and Granderson had other guys on their teams that were under consideration, did they not? (Gonzalez and Teixeira). I have always thought that having more than one MVP candidate from a team kind of diminishes the argument for one or the other because they are likely enjoying their success partly because of the success of their teammate.

 

[Kin]

I'm okay with Verlander winning, and I am happy with Bautista finishing 3rd.

Ellsbury and Granderson had other guys on their teams that were under consideration, did they not? (Gonzalez and Teixeira). I have always thought that having more than one MVP candidate from a team kind of diminishes the argument for one or the other because they are likely enjoying their success partly because of the success of their teammate.

For what it's worth Verlander is the only guy you mention who had another serious MVP candidate on his team in Miguel Cabrera(Gonzalez ranks as the third most valuable Red Sock behind Pedroia and Teixeira actually finished tied for Bartolo Colon as the 12th most valuable Yankee, according to BR).

 

[bustaheims]

He did finish 3rd in BR's WAR though, so it's not that far off. Really, the top five is pretty good with the exception of Granderson.

Granderson finishing 4th is a whole different issue - especially considering he received more top 5 finish votes (25) than Bautista (24). I mean, that's just absurd. The fact that some voters had Bautista ranked as low as 7th is just ridiculous. The guy was probably the most dangerous bat in baseball in 2011.

 

[Derk]

I'm okay with Verlander winning, and I am happy with Bautista finishing 3rd.

Ellsbury and Granderson had other guys on their teams that were under consideration, did they not? (Gonzalez and Teixeira). I have always thought that having more than one MVP candidate from a team kind of diminishes the argument for one or the other because they are likely enjoying their success partly because of the success of their teammate.

For what it's worth Verlander is the only guy you mention who had another serious MVP candidate on his team in Miguel Cabrera(Gonzalez ranks as the third most valuable Red Sock behind Pedroia and Teixeira actually finished tied for Bartolo Colon as the 12th most valuable Yankee, according to BR).

Wow, didn't know that. Thanks!

I just remember during the year that Teixeira was a serious contender, as was Gonzalez, but that could have been before the all-star break. I really stopped caring about it at that point.

I do think that having a strong batting lineup favours other batters in their hunt for MVP. Cabrera was definitely a support for Verlander in his MVP bid, but not as much as Teixeira may have been for Granderson.