2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[dappleganger]

I think a luxury tax would be a good idea for the NHL because of the disparity between the have's and the have-not's. All luxury tax revenue goes straight into revenue sharing for the least grossing clubs.

Something like dollar for dollar for everything over the luxury cap up to 10%, then 2x for everything between 10%-20% over. 3x for 20-30% and so on.  Teams prolly wouldn't go much more than 10% over and it would create more revenue sharing.

 

[Tigger]

With cap hits like this no wonder the owners are leveraging via lockout...


Jeremy Welsh CAP HIT $17,945,000 , shame Carolina... shame

 

[Corn Flake]

I am not very well read on these negotiations. I have been so busy at work that I can barely keep up at all.

For people that are keeping up with these negotations are they more optomistic or pessimistic right now about the season starting on time.

Hard to say from what's coming out in the media, posturing and such, personally I hope the season starts on time but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't.

There is a lot of smoke right now but I get the sense they aren't a billion miles (or dollars) apart. This is nowhere near as crazy as it was last time. It sounded as though they were headed very much in the right direction until the last player's proposal, which probably just didn't sacrifice enough revenue % for the owners to play nice. 

Neither side is going to truly give until right around the 15th, and I have a feeling they won't miss more than a month of hockey at worst.  I think it will go much like the NBA deal did last year where they scrapped it out for a month over the % and finally got it done in time to have a near-full season. 

But that's just my feeling.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Could Bettman come off any more like a smug Pr!ck? I do not believe it's possible.

 

[hockeyfan1]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48329-Total-parity-not-the-best-solution-for-NHL.html

?The league refers to it as ?leakage?,? said an NHL agent. ?It?s the front-loading of deals, it?s burying contracts in the minors or Europe. Last time, (NHL commissioner) Gary (Bettman) only cared about the bigger picture ? getting the (salary) cap in place and getting rid of (former NHLPA executive director) Bob (Goodenow). This time, he?s interested in all the details and fine print.?

Why shouldn?t teams that have the most fans and interest and are the primary fillers of the league?s coffers also have at least a modicum of ability to benefit on the playing field for their success? Why shouldn?t Leafs GM Brian Burke get what he?s been publicly requesting for years now ? the ability to absorb a percentage of the salary of a player he?s trading away? Why isn?t it valid for the PA to suggest the league allow small-market teams to trade a certain percentage of cap room to big-market teams in exchange for financial considerations?

The more Bettman?s negotiating team demands total parity, the less this business resembles the free market most of these team owners desperately demand and crave in the industries that made them multi-millionaires and billionaires and allowed them entry into the owners club. How can they rationalize the transparent hypocrisy in this stance?

Considering where the NHL is right now ? with the big-markets making life easier for the small markets as it is ? it doesn?t need full and artificial equality. It needs a better system to help the small-markets ? a system that includes help from the NHLPA ? but it also needs to acknowledge which franchises have earned the most juice, too.

For the NHL, revenue sharing should be a competitive hand up, not a perpetual welfare handout.

 

[Kin]

Could Bettman come off any more like a smug Pr!ck? I do not believe it's possible.

Challenge accepted:

 

[L K]

http://www.lfpress.com/2012/08/31/american-nhl-team-owners-a-political-bunch

Deregulation and free market society for everything (except the NHL).

 

[hockeyfan1]

Lockout? No problem...

After the two previous labour stoppages, the NHL immediately increased its per game attendance figures, squashing any concerns about fleeing customers...

...ticket sales form a big chunk of the hockey related revenues that owners and players are currently fighting over.

...Canadian teams have played a big role in ticket revenue growth and currently account for one-third of leaguewide ticket sales. For the 2010-11 season, the Montreal Canadiens brought in about $2 million in gate receipts per game, edging the Toronto Maple Leafs for first position.

...numerous theories as to why the NHL has rebounded from lockouts so successfully.... eight new hockey arenas opened between 1994 and 1996, and new venues lead to increased attendance. After the most recent lockout, the league made several rule changes that helped increase scoring. Not to mention that the post-lockout NHL featured a fresh crop of marketable players, like Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin. All these factors likely had a positive impact on attendance.

"Because of the makeup of the NHL fan base, the league is less volatile than others when work stoppages occur," said Paul Swangard, managing director of the University of Oregon's Warsaw Sports Marketing Center...

In The Wages of Wins, a book co-authored by three American economics professors, its writers debunk sports myths, including the notion that spectators desert leagues after labour disputes.


Statistically speaking, Bettman has every right to assume that fans would cushion his league once again. But if the current CBA expires on Sept. 15 without a resolution, the resulting lockout would be the third in the last 18 years, all under Bettman?s tenure. So is it possible that the NHL has run out of recoveries?

After Bettman?s first lockout...the NHL recovered because of the arena boom. After his second lockout...the NHL got lucky with its infusion of new talent.

But it might be that sports fans crawl back to the leagues they support...

The research certainly says so.

For more on the article, go to:
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog/business_briefings/97168--gary-bettman-is-right-about-nhl-fans

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Lockout? No problem...

After the two previous labour stoppages, the NHL immediately increased its per game attendance figures, squashing any concerns about fleeing customers...

...ticket sales form a big chunk of the hockey related revenues that owners and players are currently fighting over.

...Canadian teams have played a big role in ticket revenue growth and currently account for one-third of leaguewide ticket sales. For the 2010-11 season, the Montreal Canadiens brought in about $2 million in gate receipts per game, edging the Toronto Maple Leafs for first position.

...numerous theories as to why the NHL has rebounded from lockouts so successfully.... eight new hockey arenas opened between 1994 and 1996, and new venues lead to increased attendance. After the most recent lockout, the league made several rule changes that helped increase scoring. Not to mention that the post-lockout NHL featured a fresh crop of marketable players, like Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin. All these factors likely had a positive impact on attendance.

"Because of the makeup of the NHL fan base, the league is less volatile than others when work stoppages occur," said Paul Swangard, managing director of the University of Oregon's Warsaw Sports Marketing Center...

In The Wages of Wins, a book co-authored by three American economics professors, its writers debunk sports myths, including the notion that spectators desert leagues after labour disputes.


Statistically speaking, Bettman has every right to assume that fans would cushion his league once again. But if the current CBA expires on Sept. 15 without a resolution, the resulting lockout would be the third in the last 18 years, all under Bettman?s tenure. So is it possible that the NHL has run out of recoveries?

After Bettman?s first lockout...the NHL recovered because of the arena boom. After his second lockout...the NHL got lucky with its infusion of new talent.

But it might be that sports fans crawl back to the leagues they support...

The research certainly says so.

For more on the article, go to:
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog/business_briefings/97168--gary-bettman-is-right-about-nhl-fans

And the numbers show that it wasn't about the league improving as a whole. It was about the rich 1/3rd of the league getting richer...And the poor continuing to lose money.

 

[moon111]

Detroit is 22nd on that list.  Went from 20,066 maximum capacity to 20,064.  Guess one couple found something better to do.  Toronto has been standing room only.

 

[Hampreacher]

Of note due to lockout talk CBS Sportsline has removed NHL from its top line of sports leagues was fourth after NFL, NBA, MLB. Now for the first time and I have used it as homepage for years that NHL has not been listed. What has ESPN done? Does Bettman not think a lockout will not hurt league! It will in US market.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

 

[jdh1]

There's a lot of pride on the line with these negotiations.Both Bettman and Fehr know right now roughly where it's all going to end up...but they can't settle this because each side will show a percieved weakness on their part.

The owners will tell the Bettman he could have done better and the PA will say Fehr caved too much...and so it goes on.
The fan needs to organize and tell them that every day this goes past the 15th..we get free nacho's  and cheese,hotdogs,drinks, free sweater, free lolly pops and the Bettman and Fehr must stand outside the arena in the cold in the Canadian cities and stand in the rain in the southern and tell us how sorry they are for delaying the season.

So there ...that's my 2 cents.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Something I don't think we've heard yet:

The Post has learned the NHL proposals feature a ?management rights? clause under which the league would assume unilateral power over issues including realignment, scheduling and playoff format.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_labor_talks_remain_in_limbo_eBWV8kIsSreD3qc9g7GazJ#ixzz25dZc47s4

 

[L K]

Something I don't think we've heard yet:

The Post has learned the NHL proposals feature a ?management rights? clause under which the league would assume unilateral power over issues including realignment, scheduling and playoff format.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_labor_talks_remain_in_limbo_eBWV8kIsSreD3qc9g7GazJ#ixzz25dZc47s4

So 23% drops in player compensation weren't enough.  Suggesting that contracts be capped at 5 years after half your owners throw out 10 year deals.  Suggesting rookies be locked into 5 year contracts.  Trying to get rid of arbitration.

I'm sorry, but why is anyone supporting the owners in this negotiations.  It seems like they just throw in asinine clauses that don't become the mainstream media focus just because they can.

They talk about partnerships and how the players need to take accountability for the financial state of the game and then feel like they can just push them out of making decisions.  Bettman is something special.

But it would be pretty cool.  We could make the players something that every team makes...and then we could have 12 winter classics a year.  It would be awesome.

 

[Kin]

Something I don't think we've heard yet:

The Post has learned the NHL proposals feature a ?management rights? clause under which the league would assume unilateral power over issues including realignment, scheduling and playoff format.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nhl_labor_talks_remain_in_limbo_eBWV8kIsSreD3qc9g7GazJ#ixzz25dZc47s4

So 23% drops in player compensation weren't enough.  Suggesting that contracts be capped at 5 years after half your owners throw out 10 year deals.  Suggesting rookies be locked into 5 year contracts.  Trying to get rid of arbitration.

Well, without wanting to kick off another round of throwing novels at cw but this is the thing that is stretching credulity for me. The NHL right now is arguing that the financial changes they're looking for are crucial for the long-term health of the game. So let's even give them the benefit of the doubt and say that's true. Well, if that's true, where are the inducements to get the players on board? Have we learned of any one thing that the owners have offered the players that are genuine concessions? And no, not, "We're asking you to give back only 11 percent instead of 14" but something that would genuinely be better for players under a new system.

But, as pointed out, they're not just asking for financial breaks, they also want an unprecedented level of control over the players movement and contract terms. I don't know about you guys but the few times in my life I've needed money from someone else I didn't also demand their shoes and then punch them in the kidneys.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I'll admit I was firmly on the owners side in the last lockout.

I understand that in negotiations, sides can ask for things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll get what they want, but after reading what the owners want, I am firmly on the players side this time around.

This is purely about greed. I know it always is, but in this case, now it looks like the owners are trying to grab as much as they can get.

I say the players should counter with a proposal that asks for the immediate resignation of Gary Bettman.

 

[Hampreacher]

Given that at least half teams lost money last season the following solution.Hard cap of 58 million for teams that lost money the previous season. For those shown a profit a cap of 63 million with a 10% luxury tax for salary over cap. Then at 70 million 20% of salary over cap. None to exceed 78 million. Contracts outside of first year and last cannot vary beyond 25% of cap hit. What do you think?

 

[hockeyfan1]

Of note due to lockout talk CBS Sportsline has removed NHL from its top line of sports leagues was fourth after NFL, NBA, MLB. Now for the first time and I have used it as homepage for years that NHL has not been listed. What has ESPN done? Does Bettman not think a lockout will not hurt league! It will in US market.

I don't think Bettman sees it that way.  He's obviously not afraid of that.

 

[hockeyfan1]

My goodness...over a sports argument??!!...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1248887--deadly-sports-argument-a-sign-of-the-times-kelly

Call this small tragedy a meeting point of two emergent trends in sports fandom ? a constant, overwhelming flow of sports minutiae that was unavailable even a decade ago; and the way in which the Internet has brought warring tribes together online to create a new sort of debate, one that knows no conciliation or compromise.

Both are abetted by the leagues and, to a much larger extent, the media (note: the irony is thick).