2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[Kin]

Well, I would counter by saying that the owners aren't looking to change the landscape either.  They'll still end up doing guaranteed contracts, and the highest % of revenues of any of the major league sports.

Well, no. Because the NBA deal was around a 50-50 split and the last we heard from the owners was a 47% split that would have them tied with the NFL for the lowest % of revenues of any of the four major sports.

But regardless, there's no denying that the players are being asked to sign another deal that's significantly worse for them than the deal they had before. That they're being pragmatic and dealing with the owner's intransigence as if it genuinely is affecting their livelihoods doesn't make that less true.
 

Well, still the highest overall total amount of money going to player payroll ever.

Because the Game is very very popular, hockey is a tremendously profitable business in some cities and that has an inflationary effect on player values. They're still, as you point out, artificially constrained from letting the market dictate their salary which is all they ever wanted in the first place.

 

[Fanatic]

I didn't know this.... just passing it on.

Chris Johnston‏@reporterchris
CBA talks have quietly resumed in Toronto with a meeting of the Big Four: Bettman, Daly, Fehr brothers.

Pierre LeBrun‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHL and NHLPA met in Toronto today. Slated to meet again over the weekend

 

[Frank E]

Well, I would counter by saying that the owners aren't looking to change the landscape either.  They'll still end up doing guaranteed contracts, and the highest % of revenues of any of the major league sports.

Well, no. Because the NBA deal was around a 50-50 split and the last we heard from the owners was a 47% split that would have them tied with the NFL for the lowest % of revenues of any of the four major sports.

But regardless, there's no denying that the players are being asked to sign another deal that's significantly worse for them than the deal they had before. That they're being pragmatic and dealing with the owner's intransigence as if it genuinely is affecting their livelihoods doesn't make that less true.
 

Well, still the highest overall total amount of money going to player payroll ever.

Because the Game is very very popular, hockey is a tremendously profitable business in some cities and that has an inflationary effect on player values. They're still, as you point out, artificially constrained from letting the market dictate their salary which is all they ever wanted in the first place.

When you're right, you're right:

Revenue split

? 2005 CBA: Players receive 57 percent of Basketball Related Income (BRI).

? 2011 CBA: Players receive 51.15 percent of BRI in 2011-12. In later seasons players receive 49 to 51 percent of BRI (50 percent, plus or minus 60.5 percent of the amount by which BRI exceeds or falls short of projections); 1 percent of BRI (from the players' share) is used to fund a new pool for post-career benefits.

? Who benefits? This is the biggest win for the owners in this agreement. After losing $370 million, $340 million and $300 million in the past three seasons under the previous CBA, the league entered negotiations looking for a fundamental reset of the NBA's economic system -- and got it. In addition, players will lose approximately 20 percent of their 2011-12 salaries -- a result of the games missed due to the lockout.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

I thought they were in the 46% range.  I was wrong.

The current NHL position seems very similar to the one the NBA recently had, at least according to that article.

After reading through it, that NBA CBA could be a decent template.

 

[Kin]

After reading through it, that NBA CBA could be a decent template.

There are certain bits about it I don't like, like a maximum salary for FA's that means Lebron James is making about the same as Brook Lopez, but I think their soft cap/harsh luxury tax system makes a ton more sense.

 

[maplesyrup]

Man, a Leafs fan just might really dig that.

 

[Frank E]

After reading through it, that NBA CBA could be a decent template.

There are certain bits about it I don't like, like a maximum salary for FA's that means Lebron James is making about the same as Brook Lopez, but I think their soft cap/harsh luxury tax system makes a ton more sense.

I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the FA max $, but that luxury tax is something I've been a proponent of, in one form or another.

That 'amnesty' part might just solve the issue of not having to roll back salaries, if the escrow can hold up enough.

 

[Kin]

Man, a Leafs fan just might really dig that.

Trust me, I'm under absolutely no impression that the Leafs, in such a system, would start giving a damn about winning.

 

[Fanatic]

Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper
Good sign for 1st time news of #NHL #NHLPA meeting hadn't been publicly leaked before it took place. Perhaps we're starting to get somewhere

Is this a good sign? I hope so, but I am growing more apathetic about it every day. I just don't know what to think.

 

[maplesyrup]

Man, a Leafs fan just might really dig that.

Trust me, I'm under absolutely no impression that the Leafs, in such a system, would start giving a damn about winning.

Alligator arms?

 

[Kin]

Alligator arms?

It'd be letting the housecat off the leash.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper
Good sign for 1st time news of #NHL #NHLPA meeting hadn't been publicly leaked before it took place. Perhaps we're starting to get somewhere

Is this a good sign? I hope so, but I am growing more apathetic about it every day. I just don't know what to think.

The fact that they met and will continue to meet again is in itself a very good sign of some form of ongoing communication.  One can only hope that some positives come out of this. 

I'm still optimistic that both parties will reach an agreement at some point soon.

 

[Corn Flake]

Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper
Good sign for 1st time news of #NHL #NHLPA meeting hadn't been publicly leaked before it took place. Perhaps we're starting to get somewhere

Is this a good sign? I hope so, but I am growing more apathetic about it every day. I just don't know what to think.

It's usually a positive when things go quiet publicly and they are still talking.  Hopefully it means the rhetoric is over and they are getting serious about trying to get something done. 

then again all it takes is one side to say some jerky thing and it could fall apart.  Hopefully that doesn't happen.

 

[L K]

Nick Kypreos‏@RealKyper
Good sign for 1st time news of #NHL #NHLPA meeting hadn't been publicly leaked before it took place. Perhaps we're starting to get somewhere

Is this a good sign? I hope so, but I am growing more apathetic about it every day. I just don't know what to think.

It's usually a positive when things go quiet publicly and they are still talking.  Hopefully it means the rhetoric is over and they are getting serious about trying to get something done. 

then again all it takes is one side to say some jerky thing and it could fall apart.  Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic that some negotiations taking place means all that much.  Great, they didn't run to the press the second the meeting was arranged, but that doesn't mean that they are close to a deal.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

While true LK, I think one of the biggest obstacles that needs to be overcome is the games being played through the media. Bettman and Fehr are both stubborn men and when they're been made to look like a$$es in the media, they both tend to lash out with rash comments that snowball.

 

[Rebel_1812]

While true LK, I think one of the biggest obstacles that needs to be overcome is the games being played through the media. Bettman and Fehr are both stubborn men and when they're been made to look like a$$es in the media, they both tend to lash out with rash comments that snowball.

I think we all know my opinion of Gary Bettman is a Napolean wannabe, but what specifically about Fehr makes him seem stubborn to you.  He seems to me to being as concilatory as possible given the unreasonable demands.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

While true LK, I think one of the biggest obstacles that needs to be overcome is the games being played through the media. Bettman and Fehr are both stubborn men and when they're been made to look like a$$es in the media, they both tend to lash out with rash comments that snowball.

I think we all know my opinion of Gary Bettman is a Napolean wannabe, but what specifically about Fehr makes him seem stubborn to you.  He seems to me to being as concilatory as possible given the unreasonable demands.

I just feel he's made some comments that don't need to be made. Though, being the head of a union, your job is to try and sway opinion in your favour.

I'm 90% players on this one and I may be one of the biggest anti union guys around.

 

[moon111]

The biggest problem in the NHL I see is poor markets.  A big US TV deal is never going to happen.  Move or lose these poor clubs.  It's a better solution then revenue-sharing or the players drastically lowering their salaries. 

 

[bustaheims]

The biggest problem in the NHL I see is poor markets. A big US TV deal is never going to happen. Move or lose these poor clubs.  It's a better solution then revenue-sharing or the players drastically lowering their salaries.

You mean, like the $2 Billion deal the league recently signed with NBC?

 

[Hampreacher]

Open letter to NHL and NHLPA.

 

[Hampreacher]

Open Letter to NHL owners and NHLPA.
    As a hocley fan and fan of the NHL I am very upset what you are doing to the fastest sport on Ice. On one side we have owners who complain that they about half the teams are losing money or on the verge of doing so. But at the same time sign players to rediculous long term contracts. You via Bettman have refused to negotiate. Yes you have made a couple of offers but they are just reshuffling of the same numbers asking the PA to make huge concessions.  Owners will not work out a luxury tax to avoid missing a season will something they had negotiated in good faith, ie the current cap number. Bettman insists on keeping teams in failed markets, even teams that have had success on the ice yet still are not drawing fans. You refuse to fold them or move them.
    The players who sign these big contracts and are unwilling to allow contraction or to find a way to find a middle ground. Players who will not allow contracts to be limited to a few years.
      Both need to look at first of all a work stoppage will drive fans away in tose weak market teams who will never come back. Every game you miss increases proporionally the number of fans that will be lost forever. You must get in the room and negitiate, not dictate negotiate. The basis of negotiation is compromise. Compromise means the Owners give a littel and the players give a little.  Whether that means contracting or moving a couple of teams or whether that means atemporary luxury tax until reach 70 million under compromised settlement and or whether that means buyout amnesty.
    Fans are not buying a lot of this political spin or find it difficult to swallow when owners sign players to huge multi year contracts and players who sign them. We wamt our game back. it is not your game Owners you just have the priviledge of owning an NHL team. Players it is not your game you are just gifted with the ability to play hockey for a few years.  Fans should show up at the gates for ever scheduled game in their city. The city should bill the team for security and fans should be refunded for every game that is cancelled.
    So please, please, please get back to the table and NEGOTIATE (remember that means compromise, each gives and takes a little to find the middle ground.) and give us our game back.
  A life long Hockey Fan