OldTimeHockey
Active member
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Bettman's smells like money
2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
- Status
Bettman's smells like money
hockeyfan1
New member
RedLeaf said:
COMMON GROUND
The sides have more or less agreed to:
? Change the free agent calendar (see above). Arbitration dates may change as well.
? Allow cap space to be included in transactions, to encourage trades and get teams out from under heavy contracts.
? A joint health committee.
? Eliminate re-entry waivers.
? A neutral, third-party arbitrator to deal with appeals for on- and off-ice discipline.
? Minimum roster requirements to avoid situations where teams dress fewer than 18 players to save salary cap room.
GETTING CLOSER
The NHL has moved closer to the NHLPA position on:
? Entry-level contracts. The league wants a two-year limit. The players want to leave it at three.
? AHL salaries. The league is offering to count only those that exceed the NHL minimum ($525,000) against a team?s cap. The NHL had wanted the number closer to $95,000. The victory for the PA here is that AHL players won?t have their salaries count against the players? share of hockey-related revenue. Accounting would be limited to players in the NHL.
? Unrestricted free agency. The league is offering freedom after eight years of service or age 28, after asking for 10 years. This year, players could become free agents after seven years of service, or age 27.
? Maintaining salary arbitration, but with eligibility pushed back to a player?s fifth season. The players are asking for arbitration after four years. The NHL initially wanted it abolished.
STICKING POINTS
50/50: Both sides have agreed, on the surface, to a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue. The players want to get there eventually by guaranteeing certain dollar amounts ? starting with the $1.88 billion they earned last season ? will be paid over the first few years of a deal. In percentage of expected revenue, the players are closer to 56 per cent. The NHL wants a strict 50-50 split, with some provisions outside the cap to ensure players under contract get paid in full.
Revenue sharing: The players want a bigger pool of money ? about $240 million ? for the smaller teams. The NHL has increased the amount it would put into the pool to about $200 million.
Contract restraints: The NHL has wanted five-year limits on all deals with no more than a five per cent variation from year to year. The NHLPA seems ready to help teams find a way to discourage back-diving deals, but doesn?t like how strict the NHL?s proposals are.
Lockout damage: Who pays for the financial cost of the lockout? The league sees that as 50-50. The NHLPA wants the league to pay the lion?s share.
THE SKINNY
The NHLPA?s position is that none of the issues are settled ? that they are all linked to the restraints the NHL wants. Both sides agree that anything can change, with nothing agreed to in writing.
?This is all minor stuff,? one insider said. ?It?s great we have deals on these things, but they?re not changing the world.?
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Corn Flake
New member
moving significantly in the owner's direction and adding $180M to make whole kind of contradict each other.
bustaheims
Active member
Corn Flake said:
It also depends on what kind of percentage the PA is talking about or whether it's some sort of hybrid deal or whatever. It's a big move, but I wouldn't say we know enough to call it significant yet.
Corn Flake
New member
bustaheims said:
stay on percentage? suuuure.. how about 75%!!!
maplesyrup
New member
Deebo said:
^ This. ^
bustaheims
Active member
aaronward_nhl: CBA meeting has ended. Fehr addressing media. #TSN
reporterchris: Donald Fehr says new proposal is "about as good we can do."
reporterchris: Donald Fehr says sides are $182 million apart over the five-year deal.
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Fehr says both sides will reconvene at 1 pm ET
reporterchris: The NHLPA expects a response from the NHL on the new proposal this afternoon.
I don't trust Fehr's numbers, as it's been shown that the PA and the league have very different outlooks on how things are going to play out with revenue, but, at least they'll be talking after lunch. I don't like that the PA is only proposing a 5 year deal, though. I feel that it's in their best interests to lock this down for as long as they can.
reporterchris: Donald Fehr says new proposal is "about as good we can do."
reporterchris: Donald Fehr says sides are $182 million apart over the five-year deal.
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Fehr says both sides will reconvene at 1 pm ET
reporterchris: The NHLPA expects a response from the NHL on the new proposal this afternoon.
I don't trust Fehr's numbers, as it's been shown that the PA and the league have very different outlooks on how things are going to play out with revenue, but, at least they'll be talking after lunch. I don't like that the PA is only proposing a 5 year deal, though. I feel that it's in their best interests to lock this down for as long as they can.
bustaheims
Active member
pgshelly: Sidney Crosby said NHLPA offer is "hybrid" and represents some movement in league's direction. #Penguins
pgshelly: Sidney Crosby on NHLPA proposal: "We're making a move in their direction, so I don't see why they wouldn't consider it." #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: It's a little closer to their proposal. It's definitely something they'll have to consider, or they should at least. #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: "What we want back on the make-whole is not even close to what we're putting on the table, everything combined." #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: We wanted progress, but it takes both sides. They're going to have to move a little bit, too. It just shows we all want to play
The hybrid thing is intriguing, but could also a major sticking point, depending on how it's structured. That 2nd to last quote concerns me, though. I hope it's just poor wording on Sid's part, because it seems very confrontational.
pgshelly: Sidney Crosby on NHLPA proposal: "We're making a move in their direction, so I don't see why they wouldn't consider it." #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: It's a little closer to their proposal. It's definitely something they'll have to consider, or they should at least. #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: "What we want back on the make-whole is not even close to what we're putting on the table, everything combined." #Penguins
pgshelly: More Crosby: We wanted progress, but it takes both sides. They're going to have to move a little bit, too. It just shows we all want to play
The hybrid thing is intriguing, but could also a major sticking point, depending on how it's structured. That 2nd to last quote concerns me, though. I hope it's just poor wording on Sid's part, because it seems very confrontational.
Kin
New member
bustaheims said:
I think that's the trade-off with the league insisting on a fixed %. If the league grows substantially the players will want to renegotiate as soon as possible. Agreeing to a 10 year deal with no outs is essentially what everyone buried the NFLPA for. No way another PA makes the same mistake.
Chris Botta@ChrisBottaNHL
NHL reaction to proposal will be a pivotal moment. If NHL dismisses it, previous ugliness will pale in comparison to what's ahead.
I think that just about sums it up. Things will either get better soon or, in my opinion anyway, the season will be done. Frankly, at this point, I almost don't care anymore. I think by now I just sort of expected the season to be canceled.
NHL reaction to proposal will be a pivotal moment. If NHL dismisses it, previous ugliness will pale in comparison to what's ahead.
I think that just about sums it up. Things will either get better soon or, in my opinion anyway, the season will be done. Frankly, at this point, I almost don't care anymore. I think by now I just sort of expected the season to be canceled.
Corn Flake
New member
bustaheims said:
Yeah I don't quite get what he's saying there. could be bad, could be confused.
So if hybrid is 50/50 split plus make whole premium on top retro-active to the number of games played this year vs. a "NHL pays for lockout money we lost and will forever" .. the former probably works.. the latter = bad news.
bustaheims
Active member
mirtle: The NHLPA's only move on contract rights was a proposal on eliminating backdiving contracts.
crazyperfectdevil
New member
if this goes through....and if the CBA only lasts 5 years ..i really hope the fans don't come right back..it'll just let them do this to us again in 5 years time
bustaheims
Active member
aaronward_nhl: Source,NHLPA proposal took NHL structure,50/50,no guarantee.Only difference,took $211M (make whole) to $393M over 4 yrs.This $393M works
aaronward_nhl: out to an added 1.2M per team,per year over 5 yrs of the deal.Player contracting-back diving-provides a measure that determines the added
aaronward_nhl: advantage gained if player retires early.Penalizes team going forward based on benefit obtained.No need for term limits or variation. #TSN
If this is accurate, they're probably pretty close to a deal. The biggest issue is that, with the extended make whole, this deal doesn't really become 50/50 until year 5. The way the PA addresses back-diving contracts also seems needlessly convoluted, but, hard to say without knowing more about it.
aaronward_nhl: out to an added 1.2M per team,per year over 5 yrs of the deal.Player contracting-back diving-provides a measure that determines the added
aaronward_nhl: advantage gained if player retires early.Penalizes team going forward based on benefit obtained.No need for term limits or variation. #TSN
If this is accurate, they're probably pretty close to a deal. The biggest issue is that, with the extended make whole, this deal doesn't really become 50/50 until year 5. The way the PA addresses back-diving contracts also seems needlessly convoluted, but, hard to say without knowing more about it.
- Status