2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[Deebo]

Kypreos says that the NHL said yes to an NHLPA request to have a mediator involved.

Should be in the next meeting, which is "believed" to be on Wednesday.

 

[Bullfrog]

More here:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/11/26/sp-nhl-nhlpa-labour-talks-bill-daly.html

Hopefully they will help each side feel more comfortable in moving towards each other's positions.

 

[Fanatic]

Part of me is wondering how long it will take these mediators to get "up to speed". Won't that take weeks?

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Part of me is wondering how long it will take these mediators to get "up to speed". Won't that take weeks?

Shouldn't think it'll take that long. There's at least 3 of them, though I'd imagine they've got underlings to sort through most of the history of the process.

All they really need to know are the stumbling blocks, the main issues and the offers history. The NHL has made 2 offers right? The PA has only put one in writing.

They should need at most 1 week I'd think (though maybe less).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

@cotsonika Some of those who were in NFL/NBA room for mediation seemed to think it was useless

Hope it's better than that.

 

[Joe S.]

I heard on the radio today that in 05 when they got a mediator, the season was cancelled 3 days later.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I heard on the radio today that in 05 when they got a mediator, the season was cancelled 3 days later.

Probably more due to the fact they didn't meet with them until mid-February though, no?

 

[bustaheims]

I heard on the radio today that in 05 when they got a mediator, the season was cancelled 3 days later.

They tried mediation 3 times in 04/05. That, if I'm not mistaken, was the second attempt.

 

[Redleaf]

I heard on the radio today that in 05 when they got a mediator, the season was cancelled 3 days later.

They tried mediation 3 times in 04/05. That, if I'm not mistaken, was the second attempt.

Well. If these 'professional' mediators cant help provide some traction in these negotiations, then it really is time to take the rest of the NHL season out to the barn and shoot it down like a rabid dog.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL and NHLPA have agreed to allow U.S. federal mediators to get involved in the labor dispute.

Deputy Director Scot L. Beckenbaugh, Director of Mediation Services John Sweeney, and Commissioner Guy Serota to serve as the mediators.

And then there were 2:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/11/26/nhl_mediator_guy_serota_twitter/

What a circus!

 

[13th fan]

I heard on the radio today that in 05 when they got a mediator, the season was cancelled 3 days later.

They tried mediation 3 times in 04/05. That, if I'm not mistaken, was the second attempt.

Well. If these 'professional' mediators cant help provide some traction in these negotiations, then it really is time to take the rest of the NHL season out to the barn and shoot it down like a rapid dog.

I agree , drop the tent on this circus and call it a season.

 

[Joe S.]

You know what I find funny - after years of not listening to prime time sports because I found it just so irritating, I'm now finding it very listenable - I'm actually enjoying it again. I guess because there's no hockey so there isn't any constant leafs bashing...

 

[Bullfrog]

Well. If these 'professional' mediators cant help provide some traction in these negotiations, then it really is time to take the rest of the NHL season out to the barn and shoot it down like a rapid dog.

I agree , drop the tent on this circus and call it a season.

Well that's just silly. Why give up on the season? If we can get 40 games out of the season, then why not?

 

[Britishbulldog]

Well. If these 'professional' mediators cant help provide some traction in these negotiations, then it really is time to take the rest of the NHL season out to the barn and shoot it down like a rapid dog.

I agree , drop the tent on this circus and call it a season.

Well that's just silly. Why give up on the season? If we can get 40 games out of the season, then why not?

I don't get the analogy.  If the dog is fast you take it out back and shoot it?  Why?  To see if it is faster than a bullet?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I will assume what was meant was "rabid."

 

[Redleaf]

I will assume what was meant was "rabid."

;D

Yes. Stupid spell check. Rabid. Rabid, as in foaming at the mouth, wild eyes. Time to put down. Rabid.

 

[princedpw]

Have they gained?  Suppose the players immediately said they would give the league 50-50 across the board, no caveats, before the season started, and they started the season on time.  They would have gained hundreds of millions in additional revenues from 3-4 extra months of hockey plus winter classic, allstar game, etc.

Suppose league revenue is 3.3 billion for a season (that was last year, right?).  1/2 of that being players side.  So they have 1.7 billion.  Suppose approximately 1/2 the revenues of the season are lost from the lockout.  Rounding down, that is $800 million that the players are looking at losing.  Perhaps you are more optimistic and think only a 1/3 of revenues have been lost so far -- that the teams can make 2/3 of what they would have made without a lockout (and the lockout won't affect future growth at all).  That's still $566 million lost.  The players aren't going to make that up in the final agreement they make with the owners.

So, the players' strategy is already a losing one.  Upping the percentage they get from the owners by a small amount isn't worth the massive shrink in the overall size of the pie.  It's unfortunate that the emphasis has always been on "beating the owners" as opposed getting the most money for themselves.  Everyone would have been better off.  Too late now.

The problem with looking at this that way, however, is that nobody in the NHLPA, no members anyway, is going to be motivated or look at it in the context of the collective wages of the membership. Donald Fehr could be argued to have some sort of responsibility to take that into account but he doesn't set the direction.

Every player instead is going to look at this individually and the reality is that for everyone but the most transitional of players in the NHL the difference involved in losing half a season is the difference between being rich and...being slightly richer. Missing half of this season means 3.75 million to Sidney Crosby, who's probably going to make around 150 million just in salary in his career. Or 500K to Colby Armstrong who'll make at least 15 or so million. That's not to suggest it's not a sacrifice but nobody's back is getting broken.

And on the flip side of that if the players eventually get something resembling their latest offer then there are a lot of guys who'll do better, and more who think that it's a possibility that they'll do better, under that proposed deal then they would under what the owners want. Especially if they hold the line on long term front loaded contracts.

If I throw away a nickel every day I'll be 18 bucks and change poorer at the end of the year. If everyone else in the city of Toronto does it with me we'll be down a cumulative 47 million bucks or so. Together it's a lot of money, individually it's not enough to sway any decisions I make.

If these sums of money are irrelevant to the players then why didn't they just agree to the owners economic demands right away?

(If they give in on money, they could clearly get the contract flexibility they want -- it's not primarily about that.)

 

[ZBBM]

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL and NHLPA have agreed to allow U.S. federal mediators to get involved in the labor dispute.

Deputy Director Scot L. Beckenbaugh, Director of Mediation Services John Sweeney, and Commissioner Guy Serota to serve as the mediators.

And then there were 2:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/11/26/nhl_mediator_guy_serota_twitter/

What a circus!

Good.  That leaves an opening for the one professional athlete who really knows how to bring sides together ? it's in his blood:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocco_Mediate

 

[Kin]

If these sums of money are irrelevant to the players then why didn't they just agree to the owners economic demands right away?

(If they give in on money, they could clearly get the contract flexibility they want -- it's not primarily about that.)

Well, just right away that's entirely baseless conjecture on your part. There's nothing to indicate that owners are any more flexible on the backdiving deals than they are on the economic issues.

As to your question though, it's not a mystery. Just about every player has said why. They're making that sacrifice for guys who come after them. Just in getting the owners from their initial demand of 43% to the 50-50 split that people think would get a deal done would represent a roughly 10% bump for every player who comes into the league afterwards. So Crosby sacrifices 3.75 million on the 150 million he'll make but that could be worth 15-20 million for the next Sidney Crosby. Armstrong sacrifices 500K and the next guy makes 1.5-2 million more. Likewise, with the make whole money, they genuinely seem to think there's a principle at stake. 

It's a sad commentary when so many people are so befuddled as to why some people don't look at making money as the end all be all of their existence.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Part of me is wondering how long it will take these mediators to get "up to speed". Won't that take weeks?

The one mediator said he's had informal chats with each side throughout the process so far.