His WAR was 3.8, but that's pretty far off from WARs of 6.3 and 5.6 before the surgery in 2010 and 2009. His ERA was 3.81, also not the 2.30 and 3.23 he put him before the surgery. I love Johnson, but after an 8-14 year coming off Tommy John he's not a "slam dunk" as a front of the rotation starter. Not saying he won't be one, just saying I'm cautiously optimistic. Still a big upgrade over what we had, obviously.
2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
- Thread starter Darryl
- Start date
bustaheims
Active member
Buster_ESPN: Now the belief is the MIA-TOR deal won't be done until sometime Wednesday...
maplesyrup
New member
I'm officially coining the word "jaygasm."
ontariojames
New member
He still had an ERA of 3.8, even if he never returns to his old self and remains the pitcher he was last season, that's still a huge upgrade to our pitching. When you throw in another starting pitcher who eats innings and is usually a sub 4 ERA in Buerhle, this is a huge trade for the Jays.Justin said:That "front end" starter was a shadow of his former self last season coming off Tommy John surgery. I LOVED Josh Johnson before he got injured, but right now I'm proceeding with cautious optimism with him.L K said:
Just imagine if Romero, Johnson, and Happ return to their previous form...we'll have one hell of a rotation
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
It's definitely a huge splash. I've always liked Buehrle as a good lefty who's a horse (13 straight 200+ IP seasons). Reyes isn't what he once was, but is still a great option for top of the order with plus speed.
My only worry in this deal is the amount given up in good prospects for an aging lefty, an overpaid SS (though still good) and 1 guaranteed year of Johnson. I'd feel like this is a total win if he'd had one more year left before FA.
Still a deal that you probably have to make given Bautista's position, a fan-base that needs something to be excited about, and some extra cash to spend.
I'd still like to see either a power 1B/DH bat, or a veteran OF with solid production.
Getting there though....
My only worry in this deal is the amount given up in good prospects for an aging lefty, an overpaid SS (though still good) and 1 guaranteed year of Johnson. I'd feel like this is a total win if he'd had one more year left before FA.
Still a deal that you probably have to make given Bautista's position, a fan-base that needs something to be excited about, and some extra cash to spend.
I'd still like to see either a power 1B/DH bat, or a veteran OF with solid production.
Getting there though....
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Chev-boyar-sky said:
It doesn't appear that Reyes is that far off his past performance: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1736&position=SS
Plus he's actually younger than Escobar!?
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
Potvin29 said:
Looking at things a bit closer you're right!
Also I had no idea Reyes was younger than Escobar. Gotta like that (even if it's only by a bit).
bustaheims
Active member
There are some whispers Arencibia may be heading to Texas for more pitching help. Obviously, just a rumour at this point, but, a trade involving JPA seems like a strong possibility right now.
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
bustaheims said:
I hope it's for a diamond in the rough-type or reliever!
MUST READ: A hilarious Deadspin summary of the Marlins' past year:
http://deadspin.com/5960332/the-miami-marlins-are-a-hilarious-disgrace
http://deadspin.com/5960332/the-miami-marlins-are-a-hilarious-disgrace
Kin
New member
Genuine reaction to the deal: Wow, that's a big trade.
Ultra-critical reaction: I don't know that the Jays landed anyone who's a sure thing all-star. Buehrle is going to be 34, Johnson has injury problems, Reyes is a good player but one who makes a big living on his speed and about to hit 30 and Bonifacio may not have a position.
Ultra-Generous reaction: I mean...who did the Jays give up? Forget Escobar. It boils down to five prospects. Alvarez, who couldn't miss bats, Hech, who couldn't hit anywhere but Vegas, and three guys who spent time in A ball last season. Marisnick's a good prospect but didn't hit in AA and Nicolino and Desclafini are two of many, many good pitching prospects the Jays have at that level. In return they got a starting SS and leadoff man, 2/5ths of a good, veteran rotation and Bonifacio who might be next year's starting LF or 2B. It certainly isn't like they emptied the cupboard. They still have D'Arnaud, they still have Gose. They still have most of their single A arms. I mean, yikes.
Sarcastic reaction: Sure, because who wouldn't look at last year's Marlins and think that you wanted to import a quarter of their team.
In summation: I mean, it's not a risk free move but it sure looks like a good one. Bit of a shame they couldn't have somehow pried Logan Morrison out of that mess and given him a shot at the 1B job but that's nitpicking.
Ultra-critical reaction: I don't know that the Jays landed anyone who's a sure thing all-star. Buehrle is going to be 34, Johnson has injury problems, Reyes is a good player but one who makes a big living on his speed and about to hit 30 and Bonifacio may not have a position.
Ultra-Generous reaction: I mean...who did the Jays give up? Forget Escobar. It boils down to five prospects. Alvarez, who couldn't miss bats, Hech, who couldn't hit anywhere but Vegas, and three guys who spent time in A ball last season. Marisnick's a good prospect but didn't hit in AA and Nicolino and Desclafini are two of many, many good pitching prospects the Jays have at that level. In return they got a starting SS and leadoff man, 2/5ths of a good, veteran rotation and Bonifacio who might be next year's starting LF or 2B. It certainly isn't like they emptied the cupboard. They still have D'Arnaud, they still have Gose. They still have most of their single A arms. I mean, yikes.
Sarcastic reaction: Sure, because who wouldn't look at last year's Marlins and think that you wanted to import a quarter of their team.
In summation: I mean, it's not a risk free move but it sure looks like a good one. Bit of a shame they couldn't have somehow pried Logan Morrison out of that mess and given him a shot at the 1B job but that's nitpicking.
dappleganger
Active member
Excited about a Toronto team? This is going to be a nice change.
Well done AA.
Well done AA.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Nik V. Debs said:
Sarcastic 1990 Nik: Awesome, we got Alomar and Carter the stars of the amazing Padres.
hockeyfan1
New member
Great 'gutsy' wheeling & dealing by Anthopoulos. True, be traded away a few prospects, but overall, he did what he believed needed to be done for the team's immediate future.
With all healthy bodies on board and then some, the Jays should have no reason to not prosper next season.
WAY TO GO, BLUE JAYS!
With all healthy bodies on board and then some, the Jays should have no reason to not prosper next season.
WAY TO GO, BLUE JAYS!
hockeyfan1
New member
The Florida Marlies have certainly become a 'convoluted' team with a 'convoluted' owner, but the trade should make us feel better (not go mention injecting a much-needed dose of optimism in Jaysland), according to outside opinion to wit...
The Marlins...jettison right-hander Josh Johnson, left-hander Mark Buehrle, shortstop Jose Reyes, catcher John Buck and outfielder Emilio Bonifacio. In return, the Blue Jays...send to Miami shortstop Yunel Escobar, shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria, right-hander Henderson Alvarez, catcher Jeff Mathis, minor league left-hander Justin Nicolino...
While that may seem lopsided from a major-league competitiveness standpoint and would certainly benefit the Blue Jays, who with consummation of the trade consider themselves legit in the American League East...
Source: Yahoo! Sports
The Marlins...jettison right-hander Josh Johnson, left-hander Mark Buehrle, shortstop Jose Reyes, catcher John Buck and outfielder Emilio Bonifacio. In return, the Blue Jays...send to Miami shortstop Yunel Escobar, shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria, right-hander Henderson Alvarez, catcher Jeff Mathis, minor league left-hander Justin Nicolino...
While that may seem lopsided from a major-league competitiveness standpoint and would certainly benefit the Blue Jays, who with consummation of the trade consider themselves legit in the American League East...
Source: Yahoo! Sports
maplesyrup
New member
Huh. Reyes is actually younger than Escobar. Did not know that. Anyway, this is going to be one hell of a fast team.
Kin
New member
Potvin29 said:
Yeah, well, that's why you should never listen to sarcastic 8 year olds*.
*Although Lil' Nik might have had a point. In the five years after that trade Carter/Alomar accounted for a cumulative WAR of 29.3. McGriff/Fernandez were at 21.8. So Alomar/Carter were only worth 1.5 wins more per year than McGriff/Fernandez would have been. On top of that, Alomar's emergence led to the Blue Jays best 2B prospect being dealt, a certain Mr. Jeff Kent who might join Alomar in the HOF some day. So would the Jays have been as successful with McGriff/Fernandez/Kent as they were with Carter/Alomar/Cone? Probably not, but it is a noodle scratcher.
JP Morosi speculates that the Jays should again reach out to Bobby Cox for the managerial job. Apparently they contacted him earlier and he said no, but this was before the trade. Could the promise of contending for a playoff spot lure Cox back to Toronto? It's still a huge long-shot.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/bobby-cox-toronto-blue-jays-could-blockbuster-trade-lure-him-out-of-retirement-111312
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/bobby-cox-toronto-blue-jays-could-blockbuster-trade-lure-him-out-of-retirement-111312