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2016-17 Marlies Talk: New Season, Continued Expectations

Britishbulldog said:
cabber24 said:
I seriously hope the Marlies/Leafs take some proactive steps towards Dotchin next time we face him.
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I actually wouldn't mind off the ice even.  Does anyone know where he spends his summers?
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Is this just Internet tough guy talk? Or are you guys advocating premeditated assault?
 
herman said:
Britishbulldog said:
cabber24 said:
I seriously hope the Marlies/Leafs take some proactive steps towards Dotchin next time we face him.
Click to expand...

I actually wouldn't mind off the ice even.  Does anyone know where he spends his summers?
Click to expand...

Is this just Internet tough guy talk? Or are you guys advocating premeditated assault?
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely not, but at this point isn't that exactly what Dotchin's "play" amounts to?
 
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
at this point isn't that exactly what Dotchin's "play" amounts to?
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I understand what you're saying; I would consider that a false equivalency though. Dotchin's a big body with good mobility, trained to play a game that encourages him to use his body to separate other players from the puck. His actions, though they have had some injurious results, have largely been within the confines of the game or within that error bar that questionable plays tend to fall under. He's encouraged to be greasy, but I don't really see him headhunting, or aiming for knee shots, or slewing feet. I don't like him or the way he plays, but that's what's encouraged in this sport that is inherently unsafe.

Advocating retaliation for past transgressions by way of threat of injury is a different matter in my books. I do get that others might not see it that way.
 
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
herman said:
Britishbulldog said:
cabber24 said:
I seriously hope the Marlies/Leafs take some proactive steps towards Dotchin next time we face him.
Click to expand...

I actually wouldn't mind off the ice even.  Does anyone know where he spends his summers?
Click to expand...

Is this just Internet tough guy talk? Or are you guys advocating premeditated assault?
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely not, but at this point isn't that exactly what Dotchin's "play" amounts to?
Click to expand...

I try not to allow others to determine my reactions but after 3 injuries caused by Dotchin going over the line I get my buttons pushed.

There is one area where a big body playing hard within the rules can see an opposing player injured.  I get that.  I have seen my youngest son's teams that over powered the opposition and I have seen him on teams that were simply over powered by the opposition. It was all within the rules.

I see that you feel that there wasn't 'headhunting' involved but I disagree.  Gauthier was having a very good game and was taken out by Dotchin so late that it was OFF CAMERA!  When Kapanen was playing so well that he was rumoured to be favoured to be called up Dotchin intentionally hit him in the knees behind the net.  For a smooth skating, big defenseman.....that is greasy.

Do you see Adam McQuaid, Erik Gudbranson or Josh Manson crossing the line that way?

Gauthier has worked so hard since drafted to get at the level he is at and some reports are that he might not get back to that level due to the severity of this injury.

Guess I still feel an intentional perpetrator probably shouldn't be held to the eye for an eye standard no matter what I spew on the internet.  I at least feel that Dotchin should be suspended until Gauthier is playing professional hockey again and should probably have his pay suspended until then as well.  It would make players with Dotchin potential and decent skill set to think twice before cheapshotting an opponent.
 
Britishbulldog said:
I try not to allow others to determine my reactions but after 3 injuries caused by Dotchin going over the line I get my buttons pushed.

There is one area where a big body playing hard within the rules can see an opposing player injured.  I get that.  I have seen my youngest son's teams that over powered the opposition and I have seen him on teams that were simply over powered by the opposition. It was all within the rules.

I see that you feel that there wasn't 'headhunting' involved but I disagree.  Gauthier was having a very good game and was taken out by Dotchin so late that it was OFF CAMERA!  When Kapanen was playing so well that he was rumoured to be favoured to be called up Dotchin intentionally hit him in the knees behind the net.  For a smooth skating, big defenseman.....that is greasy.

Do you see Adam McQuaid, Erik Gudbranson or Josh Manson crossing the line that way?

Gauthier has worked so hard since drafted to get at the level he is at and some reports are that he might not get back to that level due to the severity of this injury.

Guess I still feel an intentional perpetrator probably shouldn't be held to the eye for an eye standard no matter what I spew on the internet.  I at least feel that Dotchin should be suspended until Gauthier is playing professional hockey again and should probably have his pay suspended until then as well.  It would make players with Dotchin potential and decent skill set to think twice before cheapshotting an opponent.
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In no way would I condone any of Dotchin's injury causing hits as acceptable (except Kapanen's which was just an awkward collision), but they are natural in the course of the way the game is played. My point is that this is a fast game that allows, nay encourages, physical contact. Early, on time, late hits are going to happen. Limbs in awkward angles in collisions are going to happen.

To posit that Dotchin kept track of Marlie players' eligibility for call ups and deliberately targeted them is a stretch. To surmise that he pursued injuring them is a further stretch.

What we have here is an understandably intense reaction to perceived intentional damages. Do physical players try to hit skilled players on the other team to throw them off their game and nullify their skill? Yes. Do players intentionally try to injure other star players to take them out? I can't say for certain in Dotchin's case(s), but it has definitely happened in the past in other situations and sports where machismo and emotions run unchecked.

Does any of that justify the sense of 'justice' that Todd Bertuzzi was operating under when he chased Steve Moore around the ice to pay him back for accidentally concussing Naslund? Should we as fans go about town looking to exact vigilante 'justice' for this?

Am I just overreacting to off-the-cuff anonymous posturing on the internet?
 
herman said:
Britishbulldog said:
I try not to allow others to determine my reactions but after 3 injuries caused by Dotchin going over the line I get my buttons pushed.

There is one area where a big body playing hard within the rules can see an opposing player injured.  I get that.  I have seen my youngest son's teams that over powered the opposition and I have seen him on teams that were simply over powered by the opposition. It was all within the rules.

I see that you feel that there wasn't 'headhunting' involved but I disagree.  Gauthier was having a very good game and was taken out by Dotchin so late that it was OFF CAMERA!  When Kapanen was playing so well that he was rumoured to be favoured to be called up Dotchin intentionally hit him in the knees behind the net.  For a smooth skating, big defenseman.....that is greasy.

Do you see Adam McQuaid, Erik Gudbranson or Josh Manson crossing the line that way?

Gauthier has worked so hard since drafted to get at the level he is at and some reports are that he might not get back to that level due to the severity of this injury.

Guess I still feel an intentional perpetrator probably shouldn't be held to the eye for an eye standard no matter what I spew on the internet.  I at least feel that Dotchin should be suspended until Gauthier is playing professional hockey again and should probably have his pay suspended until then as well.  It would make players with Dotchin potential and decent skill set to think twice before cheapshotting an opponent.
Click to expand...

In no way would I condone any of Dotchin's injury causing hits as acceptable (except Kapanen's which was just an awkward collision), but they are natural in the course of the way the game is played. My point is that this is a fast game that allows, nay encourages, physical contact. Early, on time, late hits are going to happen. Limbs in awkward angles in collisions are going to happen.

To posit that Dotchin kept track of Marlie players' eligibility for call ups and deliberately targeted them is a stretch. To surmise that he pursued injuring them is a further stretch.

What we have here is an understandably intense reaction to perceived intentional damages. Do physical players try to hit skilled players on the other team to throw them off their game and nullify their skill? Yes. Do players intentionally try to injure other star players to take them out? I can't say for certain in Dotchin's case(s), but it has definitely happened in the past in other situations and sports where machismo and emotions run unchecked.

Does any of that justify the sense of 'justice' that Todd Bertuzzi was operating under when he chased Steve Moore around the ice to pay him back for accidentally concussing Naslund? Should we as fans go about town looking to exact vigilante 'justice' for this?

Am I just overreacting to off-the-cuff anonymous posturing on the internet?
Click to expand...
At this point I would literally assign a player to teach him a "lesson". A capable fighter to chase him around the ice to coherence him into fight. A fighter that can easily beat him. Have him face up to his actions. If he chooses to embarrass himself like Claude Lemeuix he has to wear that. No cheap shots or Bertuzzi like actions.
 
Flash poll: which one should I use?

1) Neo-Classical
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2) Postmodern
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3) Post-postmodern
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4) Post-truth
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cabber24 said:
At this point I would literally assign a player to teach him a "lesson". A capable fighter to chase him around the ice to coherence him into fight. A fighter that can easily beat him. Have him face up to his actions. If he chooses to embarrass himself like Claude Lemeuix he has to wear that. No cheap shots or Bertuzzi like actions.
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Or, you know, the Marlies could just continue to ice their best possible line-up, win the series, and keep playing while Dotchin has to watch from the stands. It would almost be like they focused on the important part of the game - winning - rather than individual vendettas and vengeance.
 
Because remember when Darren McCarty beat up Claude Lemieux and after that Claude Lemieux completely changed as a player and never did anything dirty again?
 
Nik the Trik said:
Because remember when Darren McCarty beat up Claude Lemieux and after that Claude Lemieux completely changed as a player and never did anything dirty again?
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Thinking about that a bit.

I know on my son's provincial teams there was a player that was good enough to make the team but was an idiot on and off the ice.  It was like he had a disconnect between his brain and his emotions.  It was weird.  He would throw a late hit different times knowing the other team had a couple of guys that would pound him and even AFTER he was suspended he did it again.  I was flabbergasted.  He would do it and even be scared to go on the ice because he knew he was an idiot but then would do it again to a venerable player, etc.

That's why, although my heart prefers vigilante justice, in the post above I have considered for the 1st time that the offending player should be suspended at least for the length of the injury and in pro sports have their salary suspended for the same period.  That is on top of the current punishments handed out for head shots, spearing, etc without serious injury.  The only way for a suspended player to return early would be if the injured player (or guardian if the player is under age) applies for an exception or leaves hockey.
 
Britishbulldog said:
Nik the Trik said:
Because remember when Darren McCarty beat up Claude Lemieux and after that Claude Lemieux completely changed as a player and never did anything dirty again?
Click to expand...


Thinking about that a bit.

I know on my son's provincial teams there was a player that was good enough to make the team but was an idiot on and off the ice.  It was like he had a disconnect between his brain and his emotions.  It was weird.  He would throw a late hit different times knowing the other team had a couple of guys that would pound him and even AFTER he was suspended he did it again.  I was flabbergasted.  He would do it and even be scared to go on the ice because he knew he was an idiot but then would do it again to a venerable player, etc.

That's why, although my heart prefers vigilante justice, in the post above I have considered for the 1st time that the offending player should be suspended at least for the length of the injury and in pro sports have their salary suspended for the same period.  That is on top of the current punishments handed out for head shots, spearing, etc without serious injury.  The only way for a suspended player to return early would be if the injured player (or guardian if the player is under age) applies for an exception or leaves hockey.
Click to expand...
We all ultimately want accountability which the NHL/AHL is clearly not willing to enforce. Common sense is not prevailing therefore I am suggesting the neanderthal approach since this seems to be the only available option.
 
cabber24 said:
We all ultimately want accountability which the NHL is clearly not willing to enforce. Common sense is not prevailing therefore I am suggesting the neanderthal approach since this seems to be the only available option.
Click to expand...

Except that we've seen that the neanderthal approach does not lead to any semblance of accountability. It may, in fact, lead to less.

Also, the NHL really has no say on how the AHL dishes out punishment.
 
This is pretty much the second year in a row where bad goaltending is killing the team. 
 
L K said:
This is pretty much the second year in a row where bad goaltending is killing the team. 
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Sparks' injury really sucked. I was never really a big believer, and I still doubt he ever really breaks into the NHL, but he was putting up a really strong season prior to that.
 
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