2016 Summer Housekeeping Thread

[herman]

If we tank for 2 more seasons, like many want, then this past decade (2010 - 2020) WILL be the Ballard years relived.  Capiche?

STOP wanting us to keep sucking for more high picks.  Have a better standard than that now.

Just because you choose to completely ignore the point of how truly bad the Leafs have been and how that needs to stop now, doesn't mean it isn't being made.

Time to start having higher expectations of the team and of management than merely being able to scrape together yet another bottom five finish in the 2016-17 season.

The team is being built better than that.

Ballard lover. 

That's a bit combative, without actually answering the actual question (how do decisions made 30 years ago directly correlate to today's plan).

Those who think we're in for a bottom 5 finish this year are merely giving an honest assessment of the roster as it stands.

 

[TBLeafer]

If we tank for 2 more seasons, like many want, then this past decade (2010 - 2020) WILL be the Ballard years relived.  Capiche?

And, what Nik is correctly pointing out, is that you're making a false equivalency. It's only similar on a surface level. Any deeper analysis shows how drastically different the two scenarios are.

Different scenarios or not I'm looking at outcomes of overall team performance over a decade.

 

[Tigger]

If we tank for 2 more seasons, like many want, then this past decade (2010 - 2020) WILL be the Ballard years relived.  Capiche?

STOP wanting us to keep sucking for more high picks.  Have a better standard than that now.

Just because you choose to completely ignore the point of how truly bad the Leafs have been and how that needs to stop now, doesn't mean it isn't being made.

Time to start having higher expectations of the team and of management than merely being able to scrape together yet another bottom five finish in the 2016-17 season.

The team is being built better than that.

Ballard lover. 

That's a bit combative, without actually answering the actual question (how do decisions made 30 years ago directly correlate to today's plan).

Those who think we're in for a bottom 5 finish this year are merely giving an honest assessment of the roster as it stands.

Yeah. I want them to be better, like most fans, but the reality is they likely aren't going to be much better next year, no matter what I want, one way or the other.

 

[TBLeafer]

If we tank for 2 more seasons, like many want, then this past decade (2010 - 2020) WILL be the Ballard years relived.  Capiche?

STOP wanting us to keep sucking for more high picks.  Have a better standard than that now.

Just because you choose to completely ignore the point of how truly bad the Leafs have been and how that needs to stop now, doesn't mean it isn't being made.

Time to start having higher expectations of the team and of management than merely being able to scrape together yet another bottom five finish in the 2016-17 season.

The team is being built better than that.

Ballard lover. 

That's a bit combative, without actually answering the actual question (how do decisions made 30 years ago directly correlate to today's plan).

Those who think we're in for a bottom 5 finish this year are merely giving an honest assessment of the roster as it stands.

Only playfully combative. 

I still assess them at +/- 85 points for reasons discussed in the Stamkos thread.  I had them at +/- 90 with Stamkos.

And no, people are more than just assessing them in the bottom five.

They are saying it is where they WANT them to finish.  It is where they NEED to finish and that its the only way in today's cap era to build a contender.

That sentiment is hogwash, IMO.

GO LEAFS GO!!!

 

[bustaheims]

Different scenarios or not I'm looking at outcomes of overall team performance over a decade.

Well, then, really, you only have from 2005 on if you want to look at years that are actually somewhat relevant. Anything from before than - especially from as far back as the 80s - is of questionable relevance, at best.

 

[Kin]

They are saying it is where they WANT them to finish. 

So, all things being equal, would you want them to make the playoffs?

 

[herman]

Peter Holland & Frank Corrado amongst #Leafs RFAs with arbitration rights. Deadline to file for arbitration is 5pm today.
? Dhiren Mahiban (@dcmahiban) July 5, 2016

 

[TBLeafer]

They are saying it is where they WANT them to finish. 

So, all things being equal, would you want them to make the playoffs?

All things being equal, with the high picks they have already acquired over the past half decade I'd take playoffs now over ANOTHER high pick any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ANOTHER high pick isn't progress, its just a team remaining bad, like Edmonton or Ballard under which all those high picks did nothing to improve the team.

Time to play to WIN.  Time to cheer to WIN.  Time to take the pain of being on the bubble as the team gets better and take a middle 1st rounder or 2 before we compete for the cup.  That's a pain I'll happily take over the team continuing to suck.

 

[Kin]

All things being equal, with the high picks they have already acquired over the past half decade I'd take playoffs now over ANOTHER high pick any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

BUT YOU KNOW WHO MADE THE PLAYOFFS!?!? THE 85-86 LEAFS!!!! EVIDENCE! YOU WANT THE TEAM TO BE JUST LIKE THE LEAFS IN THE 80's!!

Logic.

 

[TBLeafer]

All things being equal, with the high picks they have already acquired over the past half decade I'd take playoffs now over ANOTHER high pick any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

BUT YOU KNOW WHO MADE THE PLAYOFFS!?!? THE 85-86 LEAFS!!!! EVIDENCE! YOU WANT THE TEAM TO BE JUST LIKE THE LEAFS IN THE 80's!!

Logic.

You had to work extra hard to not make playoffs back then.

It took until 1990 for them to finish higher than 4th in their DIVISION after drafting Clark.

 

[Tigger]

Time to play to WIN.  Time to cheer to WIN.

Here's the thing, I never thought the Leafs quit last year and I always wanted them to win even if I was also keeping score on the suck chart. They weren't a very good and it's going to take some time before they are.

Play to win, sure, I don't think you'll see a Babcock team not. Cheer to win, sure, I always do, even if I'm keeping notes on just how good a draft pick they might get. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

I think you're coming from an honest place, wanting the Leafs to thrive and all, fwiw, but if we as fans are going to endure a bottoming out to become something greater, no freaking half measures.

 

[herman]

Time to play to WIN.  Time to cheer to WIN.

Here's the thing, I never thought the Leafs quit last year and I always wanted them to win even if I was also keeping score on the suck chart. They weren't a very good and it's going to take some time before they are.

Play to win, sure, I don't think you'll see a Babcock team not. Cheer to win, sure, I always do, even if I'm keeping notes on just how good a draft pick they might get. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

I think you're coming from an honest place, wanting the Leafs to thrive and all, fwiw, but if we as fans are going to endure a bottoming out to become something greater, no freaking half measures.

I concur. The last thing I want this build to turn into is what Vancouver and Boston have got right now.

 

[bustaheims]

I think you're coming from an honest place, wanting the Leafs to thrive and all, fwiw, but if we as fans are going to endure a bottoming out to become something greater, no freaking half measures.

Also, I don't believe that anyone here honestly wants the team to be bad. I know I certainly don't. However, I recognize that the team, as currently constructed, it highly likely to be bad, and, in that case, I want the team to be able to make the best of it. Like you said, no more half measures. If they're going to be bad, they should be as bad as possible to reap the best possible reward. The last thing any of us want to see is the team making moves that leave them in perpetual mediocrity or unable to take the last step towards being true Cup contenders.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Time to play to WIN.  Time to cheer to WIN.

Here's the thing, I never thought the Leafs quit last year and I always wanted them to win even if I was also keeping score on the suck chart. They weren't a very good and it's going to take some time before they are.

Play to win, sure, I don't think you'll see a Babcock team not. Cheer to win, sure, I always do, even if I'm keeping notes on just how good a draft pick they might get. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

I think you're coming from an honest place, wanting the Leafs to thrive and all, fwiw, but if we as fans are going to endure a bottoming out to become something greater, no freaking half measures.

I concur. The last thing I want this build to turn into is what Vancouver and Boston have got right now.

Ditto. Long term competitiveness is the goal, not how soon can they win a Cup. I'll wait another 10 years if it means they're contenders for the next 20.

 

[nutman]

Remember that there were major injuries, to our top players. I think we have some key forwards here still, as in JVR, Kadri, Komorov, and yes even Bosak. The new talent coming up should mix well, and now we have a goalie we can count on to make that save when we need it. I like our defence but yes it is young and in need of some time. To me this season is very big in just where we are at. I have never been so hyped about a season like this one.

This is the season of growing pains, then we should see this Team climb. so hold on tight it should be a fun ride.

 

[louisstamos]

In terms of defense, I was incredibly weirded out that the Leafs let go of both Percy and Harrington - I don't think either had an incredibly high ceiling, but the one thing the Leafs needed was high end D prospects.  Who do they have?  Valiev, Dermott, Nielson, Loov?  Dermott might be a high end guy but still way too early to know.  Hence why I wouldn't mind seeing a JVR or a Bozak traded for a great/good defensive prospect.

 

[Kin]

In terms of defense, I was incredibly weirded out that the Leafs let go of both Percy and Harrington - I don't think either had an incredibly high ceiling, but the one thing the Leafs needed was high end D prospects.  Who do they have?  Valiev, Dermott, Nielson, Loov?  Dermott might be a high end guy but still way too early to know.  Hence why I wouldn't mind seeing a JVR or a Bozak traded for a great/good defensive prospect.

I don't think Percy or Harrington really change things in terms of the prospect base. All four of the guys you mention are probably better prospects and the young guys who'll be on the team or in the pressbox(Carrick, Zaitsev, Corrado) were above those guys also.

I agree that it would have been nice to come out of the draft with a high ceiling defensive prospect but the team not having one is probably why the team isn't trying to hurry things along. They should have a couple more drafts to take a crack at one.

That said, I agree about JVR.

 

[bustaheims]

In terms of defense, I was incredibly weirded out that the Leafs let go of both Percy and Harrington

Letting these two go is in the same mold as the Grabner trade last fall - it's clearing out some of the organizational filler. They're both older prospects that are unlikely to be more than bottom pairing defencemen. In other words, they're easily replaceable. Teams can only have so many players under contract, and that means easily replaceable parts need to be sacrificed in the hope of creating space for more valuable pieces. As much as the Leafs need upgrades on the blueline, those upgrades really need to come at the top, not the bottom.

 

[TBLeafer]

Time to play to WIN.  Time to cheer to WIN.

Here's the thing, I never thought the Leafs quit last year and I always wanted them to win even if I was also keeping score on the suck chart. They weren't a very good and it's going to take some time before they are.

Play to win, sure, I don't think you'll see a Babcock team not. Cheer to win, sure, I always do, even if I'm keeping notes on just how good a draft pick they might get. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

I think you're coming from an honest place, wanting the Leafs to thrive and all, fwiw, but if we as fans are going to endure a bottoming out to become something greater, no freaking half measures.

I concur. The last thing I want this build to turn into is what Vancouver and Boston have got right now.

Exactly because you know the way its being built now, the Leafs, when we get to the SCF, are gonna get there every year consecutively for a decade!

 

[herman]

Exactly because you know the way its being built now, the Leafs, when we get to the SCF, are gonna get there every year consecutively for a decade!

That's the goal, which may or may not come to pass.

I know for sure how the team can get there (maybe) just once and then become mediocre and irrelevant for a decade after, though, and thankfully we have not been doing that.