2018 Draft Thread

[CarltonTheBear]

Sandin/Durzi: Well, I probably would have been happier with the picks made directly after each of these (Veleno and Addison), but they're still fine picks.

SDA: YESSSS INJECT THIS PICK STRAIGHT INTO MY VIENS

The rest: No refrigerators so that's a plus. A couple more overagers, which I'm still not entirely sold on. We'll see how it all pans out.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/dylanfremlin/status/1010620083104878597

Check down thread for Vancouver?s  :-X

 

[pmrules]

He was at the Leafs development camp last summer.

I?m not all too familiar with what being invited to development camp means.  Could they have signed him for free without wasting a pretty high draft pick out of that camp if they liked him (which they obviously did)?  Was it a Roster spots issue?  Once we had an open spot, couldn?t we have signed him then? 

Obviously once he re-declared for the draft that option was gone but I would like to understand this.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I?m not all too familiar with what being invited to development camp means.  Could they have signed him for free without wasting a pretty high draft pick out of that camp if they liked him (which they obviously did)?  Was it a Roster spots issue?  Once we had an open spot, couldn?t we have signed him then? 

Obviously once he re-declared for the draft that option was gone but I would like to understand this.

Dubas did say they would have considered signing him back then but didn't have any contract room.

 

[bustaheims]

I?m not all too familiar with what being invited to development camp means.  Could they have signed him for free without wasting a pretty high draft pick out of that camp if they liked him (which they obviously did)?  Was it a Roster spots issue?  Once we had an open spot, couldn?t we have signed him then? 

In addition to what CtB says above, once his junior season started, the option of signing him went away (draft eligible players who went undrafted are only free agents in the off-season).

 

[Bender]

I?m not all too familiar with what being invited to development camp means.  Could they have signed him for free without wasting a pretty high draft pick out of that camp if they liked him (which they obviously did)?  Was it a Roster spots issue?  Once we had an open spot, couldn?t we have signed him then? 

In addition to what CtB says above, once his junior season started, the option of signing him went away (draft eligible players who went undrafted are only free agents in the off-season).

So why doesn't it happen more often that contracts get thrown at them in the off season? I guess they want to see what they can do in the next year to warrant a selection?

 

[herman]

Sandin, Durzi, and Der-Arguchintsev all sound very well spoken, self-reflective/self-aware, and motivated to become better. Like Carrick-lite.

Dubas on the draft | Dubas the next day
Sandin
Durzi (he showed up last year and didn't get the call; this year he got called by his hometown team.)
Der-Arguchintsev (came over to Canada 4 years ago specifically to grow his game and learn English; buddies with Zaitsev)
Bouthillier (holy crap, he showed up to the draft!)

 

[herman]

This was a pre-draft piece on CHL defensemen and their entry/shot metrics (manually tracked).

https://theathletic.com/398538/2018/06/20/brown-the-best-draft-eligible-defencemen-in-five-categories-tracked-by-the-chl-data-tracking-project/

Neutral Zone Defence

We will discuss two statistics in this category: controlled entry prevention percentage, which is the percentage of controlled entries the defender prevents, and controlled entry attempt against percentage, which is the percentage of times the opposition carries the puck into the zone versus that defender.

Think of controlled entry prevention percentage as a measure of how successful a player is at one-on-one situatons around the blue line, and controlled entry attempt against percentage as a measure of gap control through the neutral zone. Of course, neutral zone defence is an all-encompassing measure of defensive acumen, and in many cases may be the product of team structure (particularly true for poor results).

 

[ZBBM]

Sandin, Durzi, and Der-Arguchintsev all sound very well spoken, self-reflective/self-aware, and motivated to become better. Like Carrick-lite.

Dubas on the draft | Dubas the next day
Sandin
Durzi (he showed up last year and didn't get the call; this year he got called by his hometown team.)
Der-Arguchintsev (came over to Canada 4 years ago specifically to grow his game and learn English; buddies with Zaitsev)
Bouthillier (holy crap, he showed up to the draft!)

Good to know.  If hockey doesn't pan out they can all become psychotherapists.

Thanks for the linkfest yesterday.  What the PPP guy said about Sandin defending zone entries and 1-on-1 D is music to my ears.  While I can understand the PPP guy being conflicted about not taking Veleno, if Sandin becomes the next Dermott (assuming Dermott really is the next Dermott) then in 3 years we should have a situation where actual competent defensemen are filling out all 3 pairings, or at least 5 of the 6 roles.  To me, that's when the Leafs will become a real contender.

 

[Kin]

Sandin, Durzi, and Der-Arguchintsev all sound very well spoken, self-reflective/self-aware, and motivated to become better. Like Carrick-lite.

My goodness. It's almost like there's a certain type of personality that NHL teams want players to have and agents coach their players into it so as to do better in draft interviews.

 

[skrackle]

Sandin, Durzi, and Der-Arguchintsev all sound very well spoken, self-reflective/self-aware, and motivated to become better. Like Carrick-lite.

Dubas on the draft | Dubas the next day
Sandin
Durzi (he showed up last year and didn't get the call; this year he got called by his hometown team.)
Der-Arguchintsev (came over to Canada 4 years ago specifically to grow his game and learn English; buddies with Zaitsev)
Bouthillier (holy crap, he showed up to the draft!)

That's great. I really do admire anyone who is on a life journey based on self-awareness and improvement. Not an easy path to follow.

It might be a bit milquetoast for the NHL playoffs. The Washington Capitals weren't exactly choirboys on ther journey to the Stanley Cup. The Leafs picks are all kids, with a lot to learn.

 

[herman]

My goodness. It's almost like there's a certain type of personality that NHL teams want players to have and agents coach their players into it so as to do better in draft interviews.

That's great. I really do admire anyone who is on a life journey based on self-awareness and improvement. Not an easy path to follow.

It might be a bit milquetoast for the NHL playoffs. The Washington Capitals weren't exactly choirboys on ther journey to the Stanley Cup. The Leafs picks are all kids, with a lot to learn.

There?s certainly an element of brand/personality coaching that goes into the preparation for these kids. Still takes a certain type of person to say those things earnestly (either it?s true or they?re very accomplished liars  ;D ). They sounded pretty genuine to me, but I?m a sucker for smooth talkers.

If I recall correctly these three had previous exposure to the Leafs org. Durzi for sure via dev camp last season. Der-Arguchintsev via Zaitsev.

 

[bustaheims]

So why doesn't it happen more often that contracts get thrown at them in the off season? I guess they want to see what they can do in the next year to warrant a selection?

I imagine reserve list limits play heavily into that.

 

[Kin]

There?s certainly an element of brand/personality coaching that goes into the preparation for these kids. Still takes a certain type of person to say those things earnestly (either it?s true or they?re very accomplished liars  ;D ). They sounded pretty genuine to me, but I?m a sucker for smooth talkers.

"Sure, he says that they've got to go out there and work hard in all three zones and that they have to compete hard for a full 60 minutes but does he mean it?"

 

[herman]

Today?s shower thought: the draft is hella long, so there are bound to have been farts at every table.

 

[herman]

From myself a couple of months ago in the Armchair thread:

These are the elements I want in our defenders.
1) skating: if you can't skate, bye! forwards, backwards, lateral moves, pivots. Is the skating efficient, or are you working against your own body and having to work extra hard, thus affecting stamina?
2) puck handling: can you buy yourself and supporting forwards a bit of extra time? if not, do you have another option that can cover for that? (see 1)
3) decision making: do you see your options well? do you use the right angles and speeds to cut off plays before they begin, or extend possession?
4) good at getting the puck back: I don't particularly care how, but do you win possession for your team on a regular basis?

So, I'm a big proponent of offense = effective defense.

That being said, I also feel there is a huge belief among hockey management groups that 50+ pt defenders are ones who need 7M+ and they are highly valuable and sought after (sup, Dion Phaneuf?).

I also believe that trying to score from the point regularly (a la Brent Burns, Shea Weber) is basically the NHL version of the long two-pointer in basketball: it is depressingly inefficient. On a team like the Leafs, that's taking the puck away from your actual firepower (Matthews, Nylander, Kadri), so they really only use the point shot for deliberate high tips, rebounds, and to keep goaltenders occasionally honest by bringing their shot down to the top of the circle.

What that means is, I'm looking for a 20-24 year old 3rd pairing defender that can skate out of trouble, make an accurate pass, and aggressively break up plays on a carrier, but who doesn't necessarily put up points. In stats terms, that means high relative CF%, low CA60, don't care about iCF but where the iFF is a higher proportion of the overall iCF (which means he can get shots through).

It also means I'm willing to ship out one of Rielly/Gardiner for a king's ransom because Dermott could make them surplus to needs for a fraction of the cost. I kind of want to keep Gardiner over Rielly too, because of the CA60 difference, but salary considerations and age might flip that around.

In this draft, every defenseman the Leafs picked up fits this profile, so I'm pretty happy. Most of their deficiencies are strength/size related, rather than decision-making.

 

[princedpw]

Today?s shower thought: the draft is hella long, so there are bound to have been farts at every table.

Did anything happen in the shower that inspired this thought, or would that be TMI?

 

[rdowdall]

Today?s shower thought: the draft is hella long, so there are bound to have been farts at every table.

Did anything happen in the shower that inspired this thought, or would that be TMI?

I'm not sure you need to ask this to know the answer.

 

[herman]

Today?s shower thought: the draft is hella long, so there are bound to have been farts at every table.

Did anything happen in the shower that inspired this thought, or would that be TMI?

I'm not sure you need to ask this to know the answer.

And you know there's no such thing as TMI for me.

 

[Frank E]

From myself a couple of months ago in the Armchair thread:

These are the elements I want in our defenders.
1) skating: if you can't skate, bye! forwards, backwards, lateral moves, pivots. Is the skating efficient, or are you working against your own body and having to work extra hard, thus affecting stamina?
2) puck handling: can you buy yourself and supporting forwards a bit of extra time? if not, do you have another option that can cover for that? (see 1)
3) decision making: do you see your options well? do you use the right angles and speeds to cut off plays before they begin, or extend possession?
4) good at getting the puck back: I don't particularly care how, but do you win possession for your team on a regular basis?

So, I'm a big proponent of offense = effective defense.

That being said, I also feel there is a huge belief among hockey management groups that 50+ pt defenders are ones who need 7M+ and they are highly valuable and sought after (sup, Dion Phaneuf?).

I also believe that trying to score from the point regularly (a la Brent Burns, Shea Weber) is basically the NHL version of the long two-pointer in basketball: it is depressingly inefficient. On a team like the Leafs, that's taking the puck away from your actual firepower (Matthews, Nylander, Kadri), so they really only use the point shot for deliberate high tips, rebounds, and to keep goaltenders occasionally honest by bringing their shot down to the top of the circle.

What that means is, I'm looking for a 20-24 year old 3rd pairing defender that can skate out of trouble, make an accurate pass, and aggressively break up plays on a carrier, but who doesn't necessarily put up points. In stats terms, that means high relative CF%, low CA60, don't care about iCF but where the iFF is a higher proportion of the overall iCF (which means he can get shots through).

It also means I'm willing to ship out one of Rielly/Gardiner for a king's ransom because Dermott could make them surplus to needs for a fraction of the cost. I kind of want to keep Gardiner over Rielly too, because of the CA60 difference, but salary considerations and age might flip that around.

In this draft, every defenseman the Leafs picked up fits this profile, so I'm pretty happy. Most of their deficiencies are strength/size related, rather than decision-making.

Does Carrick fit the bill, in terms of what you described there?