2019-2020 NHL Thread

[Bates]

And wouldn't avoiding the head be even easier when the head is not above the body as you deliver a check with your hip?

I don't know where you're going with this. If a player is slouched over and his head is on the same level as an opposing players hips then head contact is more unavoidable than if the player was standing upright.

If you trying to hit high. Sure. But Tkachuk was hitting with his hip area, should that not be hitting the other player's hip area?

 

[Bates]

My point is that if the refs call the 1st hit it's possible the rest might not happen.

But call what? I'm not sure it was a charge. He didn't jump into the hit and he only traveled from the middle of the circle to the goal line which doesn't seem that excessive to me. If you call that a charge then probably more than half the hits in the game are charges. I also explained why I don't think it would be a head contact penalty. I agree if anyone says those are the types of hits we want to get out of the game, I just maintain that I don't think there's anything in the current rule book that penalizes them.

Several strides towards an opponent in a vulnerable position, yeah that should be charging. Watch the video again, Tkachuk land back on his ice after hitting Kassian.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As mentioned, Bob McKenzie called them "technically legal hits" so I'm pretty confident in my take on them. Dirty hits can sometimes be legal. Blame the rule book/NHL, not the refs here.

 

[Bates]

As mentioned, Bob McKenzie called them "technically legal hits" so I'm pretty confident in my take on them. Dirty hits can sometimes be legal. Blame the rule book/NHL, not the refs here.

So are you suggesting a ref cannot call that play a penalty? I dont agree and I highly doubt anyone challenges a ref who calls a charging penalty there as it's open to the ref's interpretation of the play.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So are you suggesting a ref cannot call that play a penalty?

My last 5 posts have all said this, yeah.

 

[Hobbes]

So are you suggesting a ref cannot call that play a penalty?

My last 5 posts have all said this, yeah.

I'd be really curious to know how many charging penalties have been called in the NHL in the last couple years. I can barely remember any at all. Most plays that look like they might qualify tend to be boarding. I wonder if NHL refs even really know what constitutes a charge these days?

 

[Bates]

So are you suggesting a ref cannot call that play a penalty?

My last 5 posts have all said this, yeah.

I'd be really curious to know how many charging penalties have been called in the NHL in the last couple years. I can barely remember any at all. Most plays that look like they might qualify tend to be boarding. I wonder if NHL refs even really know what constitutes a charge these days?

https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

  https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

Sent with @NHL

 

[AvroArrow]

I think this is the kind of hit that would have gotten a (late) charging penalty IF Kassian was down injured.

Because he got up and went after Tkachuk, it's more of a "no harm no foul" situation.

 

[Bates]

I think this is the kind of hit that would have gotten a (late) charging penalty IF Kassian was down injured.

Because he got up and went after Tkachuk, it's more of a "no harm no foul" situation.

The 1st hit is the charge, the 2nd hit was the one sided fight.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd be really curious to know how many charging penalties have been called in the NHL in the last couple years. I can barely remember any at all. Most plays that look like they might qualify tend to be boarding. I wonder if NHL refs even really know what constitutes a charge these days?

I was able to find that here: https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/29/penalties

According to them there's been just 12, with 1 of them being a major penalty. Somewhat ironically Kassian has 2 of those 12 charging penalties.

In comparison there's been 60-ish boarding penalties, 160-ish delay of game for puck over the glass penalties, 200-ish cross-checking penalties.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

  https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

Sent with @NHL

In this play the disciplined player 1) skates a further distance 2) launches up in the air to deliver the hit and 3) makes head contact in an avoidable way (i.e the other player did not put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable).

So two completely different hits.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/CarBombBoom13/status/1216697767894056960

The best part about this clip is when people found out it was Kevin Sawyer himself who was the one telling the story.

 

[Hobbes]

I'd be really curious to know how many charging penalties have been called in the NHL in the last couple years. I can barely remember any at all. Most plays that look like they might qualify tend to be boarding. I wonder if NHL refs even really know what constitutes a charge these days?

I was able to find that here: https://www.icydata.hockey/player_stats/29/penalties

According to them there's been just 12, with 1 of them being a major penalty. Somewhat ironically Kassian has 2 of those 12 charging penalties.

In comparison there's been 60-ish boarding penalties, 160-ish delay of game for puck over the glass penalties, 200-ish cross-checking penalties.

Thank you! I couldn't find a site that had the details like that.

So 12 of 5192 infractions...very rare indeed! In comparison during that same time there were 62 boarding calls (1 major).
In the 18-19 season there were a total of 16 (2 maj) chargings vs 112 (8 maj) boarding calls in a total of just over 9000 penalty calls.

Not sure if we learn anything from that other than that it probably has to be close to a Texas Chainsaw Massacre level hit to get called at all.

 

[Bates]

  https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

Sent with @NHL

In this play the disciplined player 1) skates a further distance 2) launches up in the air to deliver the hit and 3) makes head contact in an avoidable way (i.e the other player did not put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable).

So two completely different hits.

I didn't call them similar, just an example of a charging that the poster asked about. But as I said before Tkachuk landed after the hit on Kassian, you can only land of you went up first

 

[Hobbes]

  https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

Sent with @NHL

In this play the disciplined player 1) skates a further distance 2) launches up in the air to deliver the hit and 3) makes head contact in an avoidable way (i.e the other player did not put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable).

So two completely different hits.

I didn't call them similar, just an example of a charging that the poster asked about. But as I said before Tkachuk landed after the hit on Kassian, you can only land of you went up first

I had a pretty good idea of what a charge was (or at least I know the rule). I was asking about the statistical frequency that it's called, which Carlton was kindly able to supply a link to.

 

[Bates]

  https://www.nhl.com/video/byron-suspended-three-games/t-277440360/c-64982503

Sent with @NHL

In this play the disciplined player 1) skates a further distance 2) launches up in the air to deliver the hit and 3) makes head contact in an avoidable way (i.e the other player did not put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable).

So two completely different hits.

I didn't call them similar, just an example of a charging that the poster asked about. But as I said before Tkachuk landed after the hit on Kassian, you can only land of you went up first

I had a pretty good idea of what a charge was (or at least I know the rule). I was asking about the statistical frequency that it's called, which Carlton was kindly able to supply a link to.

Yes, and like you I couldn't find stats on how many. So I provided an example of one that was a suspension. One that imo isn't really worse as he might have traveled less distance he glided for the last half of it. Clearly a head shot though.

 

[Bates]

And to be honest I'm not sure any of us know what a charge is??

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And to be honest I'm not sure any of us know what a charge is??

https://www.nhl.com/video/what-is-charging/t-277350912/c-49890503

Based off this video the NHL's definition of it seems to be more focused on how much a player launched/jumped into a jump than it does distance traveled. Which I think is a little different than how it's commonly thought of.

 

[Bates]

And to be honest I'm not sure any of us know what a charge is??

https://www.nhl.com/video/what-is-charging/t-277350912/c-49890503

Based off this video the NHL's definition of it seems to be more focused on how much a player launched/jumped into a jump than it does distance traveled. Which I think is a little different than how it's commonly thought of.

Wasn't the common thought in the past to be 3 strides to make the hit? Not that it matters, it happens nightly and gets called monthly.

 

[Frank E]

I actually don't know how to stop the kind of hit Tkachuk put on Kassian.

I don't blame Kassian for the response, but I don't know that you can penalize Tkachuk according to the current rule book...and I don't know how to legislate against that hit.  Trying to stop "blindside" hits is said to be a focus, but how do you define that in a hockey context?

It would be a difficult situation for the league if Tkachuk really injured Kassian, which might very well have been the case if Kassian was about 40lbs lighter.