2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm all in on Liljegren replacing Ceci if Dubas wants to bench him. My suggestion was made because I don't think Dubas will do that. Sure if you can get him out and Liljegren in without giving up assets by all means.

You don't think Dubas/Keefe would want to bench Ceci but you do think they would give up a 3rd round pick to get him off the team?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is the idea to get rid of Ceci for cap space?  Because other than that, just scratch him. 

Rielly's injured (and the cap space it opens up) gives the Leafs the perfect opportunity to at least experiment with this if they wanted to. But they aren't. Because they feel like Ceci is clearly a better fit for the team right now than Liljegren.

 

[ZBBM]

Is the idea to get rid of Ceci for cap space?  Because other than that, just scratch him.

The idea is to get rid of him, period.  But yeah, that's cutting to the chase.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm all in on Liljegren replacing Ceci if Dubas wants to bench him. My suggestion was made because I don't think Dubas will do that. Sure if you can get him out and Liljegren in without giving up assets by all means.

You don't think Dubas/Keefe would want to bench Ceci but you do think they would give up a 3rd round pick to get him off the team?

And get back a valuable late-rounder, remember ? a virtual wash. 

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

 

[ZBBM]

Is the idea to get rid of Ceci for cap space?  Because other than that, just scratch him. 

Rielly's injured (and the cap space it opens up) gives the Leafs the perfect opportunity to at least experiment with this if they wanted to. But they aren't. Because they feel like Ceci is clearly a better fit for the team right now than Liljegren.

And that's Dubas's big mistake.

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

Ceci is Gardiners replacement. The Leafs have to have at least one defenceman for the fans to constantly complain about.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

Is there really nothing in between that and "terrible player that we need to pay another team to take off the team so we can finally play another defenceman over him even though we could have been doing that all season if we wanted to"? (ok that got wordy)

The Leafs acquired Ceci because they felt he was the best available RHD who could eat up PK minutes. Unfortunately, that's still true today. If/when it isn't I will happily see Ceci in the press box or traded.

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

Is there really nothing in between that and "terrible player that we need to pay another team to take off the team so we can finally play another defenceman over him even though we could have been doing that all season if we wanted to"? (ok that got wordy)

The Leafs acquired Ceci because they felt he was the best available RHD who could eat up PK minutes. Unfortunately, that's still true today. If/when it isn't I will happily see Ceci in the press box or traded.

Sure, there you go making sense again.

 

[Hobbes]

Actually probably more than that, they acquired Ceci because Ottawa was willing to make the deal and the Leafs preferred the notion of him for 1 year vs Zaitsev for 5 years (with equivalent salaries). I suspect they felt that they'd at minimum get approximately equivalent level of performance with the possibility that Ceci would improve a bit if given a reduced work load and less challenging opposition. Babcock didn't deploy him that way, initially, but more recently as a bottom pairing guy he's been doing okay...or about as okay as one might hope. Barring someone offering us something meaningful for him at the deadline, at the end of this season he'll be allowed to walk and the Leafs will spend the next 4 years being thankful that they're not still saddled with Zaitsev.

 

[Kin]

And get back a valuable late-rounder, remember ? a virtual wash. 

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

I can't speak for anyone else but I was trying to argue that if a guy has a contract you don't like but that's expiring in a few months you don't trade draft picks to get rid of it unless you desperately need the cap space immediately.

I'd especially not do that if I'd previously made a big stink about how the team isn't getting enough for guys on expiring deals with positive value and is draft pick poor.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

haven't seen it.... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?.... but why was Kapanen scratched the other night?

 

[Kin]

haven't seen it.... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?.... but why was Kapanen scratched the other night?

We're talking about it in the GDT. Short answer, he overslept and missed practice.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

thanks Nik.... didn't realise the GDT had it....

 

[ZBBM]

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

Is there really nothing in between that and "terrible player that we need to pay another team to take off the team so we can finally play another defenceman over him even though we could have been doing that all season if we wanted to"? (ok that got wordy)

The Leafs acquired Ceci because they felt he was the best available RHD who could eat up PK minutes. Unfortunately, that's still true today. If/when it isn't I will happily see Ceci in the press box or traded.

Well, this is the fundamental disagreement.  I'd have Liljegren in there learning on the job rather than having to do it next year when we're one year further into the Window of Contention.

 

[ZBBM]

And get back a valuable late-rounder, remember ? a virtual wash. 

I mean, really, what are you guys trying to argue here?  That Cody Ceci is a vital, irreplaceable part of what makes us a "contender"?

I can't speak for anyone else but I was trying to argue that if a guy has a contract you don't like but that's expiring in a few months you don't trade draft picks to get rid of it unless you desperately need the cap space immediately.

I'd especially not do that if I'd previously made a big stink about how the team isn't getting enough for guys on expiring deals with positive value and is draft pick poor.

As you so admirably did when they let Bozak, JVR, et al. walk.  Glad we agree.

 

[Hobbes]

A nifty thing the Leafs are doing this year is having a "Mentors' Trip" instead of the usual dads (or moms) trip. Each player can invite any one person of their choosing on this year's excursion to New York.

 

[Kin]

As you so admirably did when they let Bozak, JVR, et al. walk.  Glad we agree.

Right. So they shouldn't burn third rounders for absolutely no reason. What you're suggesting here is literally the opposite of what I thought they should do with those guys.

I really don't get what you're on about at this point. Are you just scrambling because you forgot Ceci's deal is expiring? Or that they don't need the cap space?

 

[ZBBM]

As you so admirably did when they let Bozak, JVR, et al. walk.  Glad we agree.

Right. So they shouldn't burn third rounders for absolutely no reason. What you're suggesting here is literally the opposite of what I thought they should do with those guys.

I really don't get what you're on about at this point. Are you just scrambling because you forgot Ceci's deal is expiring? Or that they don't need the cap space?

I gave my reasons, so, no, you're not allowed to characterize it as "absolutely no" because that's intellectually dishonest and arguing in bad faith and I know you are above that.  You are allowed to say you think that getting rid of Ceci for a 3rd for 6th/7th is too high a price to pay.  I disagree.

More interestingly, do you have an opinion about my central point, which is that Liljegren (and Sandin) should have been up with the Leafs all this season? 

 

[Kin]

I gave my reasons, so, no, you're not allowed to characterize it as "absolutely no" because that's intellectually dishonest and arguing in bad faith and I know you are above that.

I literally have no idea what any of this means. What is "absolutely no" referring to?

  You are allowed to say you think that getting rid of Ceci for a 3rd for 6th/7th is too high a price to pay.  I disagree.

Again, why do they need to "get rid of him" vs. just benching him if you don't think he should be in the lineup? You're really not being coherent here.

 

[ZBBM]

Oh Nik, I'm not even going to bother with you any more if you can't come up with something better than playing dumb coupled with ignoring what I've already posted about benching him being fine with me too.

And are you going to answer my question or not?