2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion

[Bender]

Toronto seems to pay higher than other markets too. Maybe that's due to the constant exposure the players get in the media and their perceived value is pumped up to higher than what it should be.  Just look at a dolt like Dreger saying the contract needs to start with $11.

I love that the go-to here is that players in Toronto are "pumped up" by the media rather than the fact that what the players on the Maple Leafs do is generating more revenue and profit for their owners than players in other markets.

There's absolutely nothing ridiculous about thinking that work that is objectively worth more, as in producing more value, should get rewarded at a higher rate. The Leafs, as an organization, signed up to the NHL's asinine idea that a player in Toronto shouldn't be paid more than a comparable player in Florida, for the Leafs to then try to use that own decision of theirs to negotiate players down is ridiculous.

Are you referring to the hard cap or just a thought in general?

 

[Kin]

Toronto seems to pay higher than other markets too. Maybe that's due to the constant exposure the players get in the media and their perceived value is pumped up to higher than what it should be.  Just look at a dolt like Dreger saying the contract needs to start with $11.

I love that the go-to here is that players in Toronto are "pumped up" by the media rather than the fact that what the players on the Maple Leafs do is generating more revenue and profit for their owners than players in other markets.

There's absolutely nothing ridiculous about thinking that work that is objectively worth more, as in producing more value, should get rewarded at a higher rate. The Leafs, as an organization, signed up to the NHL's asinine idea that a player in Toronto shouldn't be paid more than a comparable player in Florida, for the Leafs to then try to use that own decision of theirs to negotiate players down is ridiculous.

Are you referring to the hard cap or just a thought in general?

The former.

 

[princedpw]

To me, the entire offseason hinges on one thing. Getting out of the Marleau contract. I mean losing Marner would be worse, but I assume they'll manage to keep him. If Marleau stays, the team doesn't improve much. If he goes, suddenly there are options available.

If he's trying to play, he's not doing it anywhere other than TOR.

If it's made clear to him, somehow, that the 2019-20 season will involve sitting in the press box or playing the fourth line, maybe he'll become open to being traded on paper and retiring?

3-way trades in the NHL are incredibly rare and so I usually ignore 3-way trade proposals. Still, this might be the rare situation where a 3-way trade is the only solution if Marleau wants to keep playing.  Neither Toronto nor San Jose can afford the salary and Marleau is unlikely to want to go to a third team.  However, transaction like:

Toronto -> Arizona -> SJ

could work out for everyone. Toronto gives up a pick. Arizona retains salary. SJ takes Marleau for the season. Toronto also retains enough salary to make the transaction work out.

 

[Zee]

Toronto seems to pay higher than other markets too. Maybe that's due to the constant exposure the players get in the media and their perceived value is pumped up to higher than what it should be.  Just look at a dolt like Dreger saying the contract needs to start with $11.

I love that the go-to here is that players in Toronto are "pumped up" by the media rather than the fact that what the players on the Maple Leafs do is generating more revenue and profit for their owners than players in other markets.

There's absolutely nothing ridiculous about thinking that work that is objectively worth more, as in producing more value, should get rewarded at a higher rate. The Leafs, as an organization, signed up to the NHL's asinine idea that a player in Toronto shouldn't be paid more than a comparable player in Florida, for the Leafs to then try to use that own decision of theirs to negotiate players down is ridiculous.

I don't understand your point about the Leafs signing up for the hard cap. What was the team's alternative, secede from the league?

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/1123984100518449153
https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1124003179094523905
Hence his absence from the World Championships

 

[Zee]

It just occurred to me that the Leafs have 13 Stanley Cups but have never won more than two playoff rounds in one season, ever.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It just occurred to me that the Leafs have 13 Stanley Cups but have never won more than two playoff rounds in one season, ever.

 

[Kin]

I don't understand your point about the Leafs signing up for the hard cap. What was the team's alternative, secede from the league?

The team's alternative was to vocally and publicly try to organize other like minded clubs into seeking to modify the league's negotiating position into one that allowed for the simple reality that dividing salaries evenly didn't make sense when revenues weren't being divided equally. To make the case to fans and media that it wasn't in their interest to see a league where a team like the Leafs would have to negotiate based on their revenues but where the cap made no allowances for that. Essentially, they needed to do what Baseball's big market owners did in their 94/95 labour dispute and not let the interests of the small market clubs entirely dictate the direction of the league.

But even if the Leafs were somehow powerless to act in their own interests it still doesn't change the reality that Leafs players are going to want a proportional cut of Leafs revenues. If the NHL had wanted a structure where players couldn't negotiate for a fair cut of the value they created, they were welcome to try but they prioritized screwing down costs for the teams that we're currently getting to watch fighting it out in the playoffs.

 

[Zee]

It just occurred to me that the Leafs have 13 Stanley Cups but have never won more than two playoff rounds in one season, ever.

I dunno, I exist in a world where I'm constantly disappointed thinking about my hockey team. I invent new ways to keep being disappointed too.

 

[Deebo]

The team's alternative was to vocally and publicly try to organize other like minded clubs into seeking to modify the league's negotiating position into one that allowed for the simple reality that dividing salaries evenly didn't make sense when revenues weren't being divided equally. To make the case to fans and media that it wasn't in their interest to see a league where a team like the Leafs would have to negotiate based on their revenues but where the cap made no allowances for that. Essentially, they needed to do what Baseball's big market owners did in their 94/95 labour dispute and not let the interests of the small market clubs entirely dictate the direction of the league.

Didn't each team have 1 vote? I don't think there were even close to enough like minded teams to get a majority.

Also, behind the scences, they may have been against a cap. During the 04/05 lockout, there was a report in the Globe that Tannebaum was in favour of accepting the 24% roll back offer without a hard cap. Publically though, the owners showed a united front. I don't think fighting the hard cap was a battle they could win.

But even if the Leafs were somehow powerless to act in their own interests it still doesn't change the reality that Leafs players are going to want a proportional cut of Leafs revenues.

Are there Leaf players that are being paid significantly more than comparable players for lower revenue clubs signing under similar circumstances to demonstrate this?

 

[sickbeast]

Marner is going to get signed and then the rest of the dominoes will fall this offseason.  It's going to be hard to watch.  Some good players are going to have to go in order for them to squeeze everything under the cap.

 

[Kin]

Didn't each team have 1 vote? I don't think there were even close to enough like minded teams to get a majority.

I could be wrong but I don't think decisions like a new CBA or locking out the players can be had via a simple majority. I think you need 2/3's or even 3/4's.

Beyond that though, Bettman's job is to represent the owners and build as good a consensus as he could among them in order to have a united front. If there had been a significant minority of teams who'd wanted a cap with more flexibility, Bettman would have had to have tried to accomodate that and reached a compromise position.

Are there Leaf players that are being paid significantly more than comparable players for lower revenue clubs signing under similar circumstances to demonstrate this?

I mean, I don't know how closely you followed either the Matthews or Nylander threads here but there are certainly people who think both of those guys signed for significantly more than the market set by other clubs would indicate. And Matthews' reported ask for an 8 year deal significantly exceeded McDavid's AAV so...yeah.

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/TheLeafsIMO/status/1124722842870767616
May the Fourth be with Dubas.

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/TheLeafsIMO/status/1124722842870767616
May the Fourth be with Dubas.

That was brilliant

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/TheLeafsIMO/status/1124722842870767616
May the Fourth be with Dubas.

That was brilliant

I like the Boourns Death Star at the end.

 

[AvroArrow]

So, do we expect Korshkov to be in the N or A next year?  And same question for Mikheyev, assuming that signing gets formalized.

Because if this two are in the N, then the lineup is virtually set, assuming the Leafs re-sign Johnsson and Kapanen, keep Kadri, and move Brown.

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Kapanen
Korshkov - Marleau - Mikheyev

 

[Zee]

So, do we expect Korshkov to be in the N or A next year?  And same question for Mikheyev, assuming that signing gets formalized.

Because if this two are in the N, then the lineup is virtually set, assuming the Leafs re-sign Johnsson and Kapanen, keep Kadri, and move Brown.

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Kapanen
Korshkov - Marleau - Mikheyev

Too early to say. See how the rest of the playoffs and camp goes year year.  There's also guys like Bracco, Engvall, Timashov among others.

 

[princedpw]

Mikheyev? Never heard of him ... where?s he from?  where did he play last year?

 

[AvroArrow]

Mikheyev? Never heard of him ... where?s he from?  where did he play last year?

KHL.  Thread here:
https://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=5448.0

 

[bustaheims]

So, do we expect Korshkov to be in the N or A next year?  And same question for Mikheyev, assuming that signing gets formalized.

Korshkov will almost certainly be a Marlie to start the season. Mikheyev would be an NHL signing.