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2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

CarltonTheBear said:
I don't know how at the very least Savard doesn't get let go, or at least reassigned, at some point soon. Until last game the team had a positive 5-on-5 goals differential. Their PK is 5th in the league, and actually 1st since Nov. 12th. A functioning powerplay would almost certainly have them in the playoffs right now.
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A middle of the pack PP would be a huge difference for this team, for sure. There’s only been a few games they haven’t had an opportunity to bank points in if they could have capitalized with the man advantage. It’s really sinking this team.
 
herman said:
My only argument against this is that PP2 has the same coach and does that thing where they shoot lots and crash the net and generate chances.
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Then the coach is either trying something different with PP1 because of their skill level (which is my suspicion, considering the noticeable difference in approach) or he isn’t getting through to the guys on PP1. Either way, coaching is a big part of the problem.
 
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Our PP hasn't been right for years, even though we scored we also spent a lot of time in our own end chasing the puck and now with Marner gone (yeah I know stop talking about it) and Matthews not himself, well here we are, and I don't see anyway to fix it right now.
 
4EVRLEAFAN said:
Our PP hasn't been right for years, even though we scored we also spent a lot of time in our own end chasing the puck and now with Marner gone (yeah I know stop talking about it) and Matthews not himself, well here we are, and I don't see anyway to fix it right now.
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Prior to this season, they've never been below 20% since 2016-17
They were 7th and 9th the last two seasons - some of that through Matthews injuries.
This season they're 14.1% and second last.
Their PK has been more of a problem historically - not the PP. This year, their PK is ok.

The point bustaheims & CarltontheBear made about the PP seems valid: a half decent PP (to be reasonably expected from the talent they have) would have them in a playoff spot.

Even if that had occurred, I'm with Mike Johnson: they're still not a likely Cup contender.

I was reading they would owe Berube a lot of dough if they canned him. So, as a cost saving measure, they could dangle a million $ or so for a coach who could come in and fix their PP. Doesn't count against the cap ...
 
bustaheims said:
Then the coach is either trying something different with PP1 because of their skill level (which is my suspicion, considering the noticeable difference in approach) or he isn’t getting through to the guys on PP1. Either way, coaching is a big part of the problem.
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I agree for the most part (slightly different plan).

I would also like to point to the pattern that this PP1 unit has done the same thing to multiple PP coaches. The entry scheme is the same for both, and the lesser skilled unit makes it work with greater frequency.

It all falls under the coaching purview, but I put a lot more of the onus and responsibility on the PP1 players (34-88 primarily) and their general lack of urgency at all phases throughout this stretch. Granted they’ve been the only PP goal scorers lately, their paycheques demand that they deliver a higher success rate.

Pacing themselves for the Olympics, perhaps? Ugh.
 
4EVRLEAFAN said:
Our PP hasn't been right for years, even though we scored we also spent a lot of time in our own end chasing the puck and now with Marner gone (yeah I know stop talking about it) and Matthews not himself, well here we are, and I don't see anyway to fix it right now.
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2019/20~6th -Paul McFarland
2020/21~16th -Manny Maholtra
2021/22~1st -Spencer Carbery
2022/23~2nd -Spencer Carbery
2023/24~7th - Guy Boucher
2024/25~8th - Marc Savard
2025/26~ 31st - Marc Savard
That's not exactly "hasn't been right". The PP can be fixed and it starts with Berube. Change the players on it. Move one or 2 of the stars off it. Create 2 units and the hot one gets the start. There's no competition here.
 
Guilt Trip said:
2019/20~6th -Paul McFarland
2020/21~16th -Manny Maholtra
2021/22~1st -Spencer Carbery
2022/23~2nd -Spencer Carbery
2023/24~7th - Guy Boucher
2024/25~8th - Marc Savard
2025/26~ 31st - Marc Savard
That's not exactly "hasn't been right". The PP can be fixed and it starts with Berube. Change the players on it. Move one or 2 of the stars off it. Create 2 units and the hot one gets the start. There's no competition here.
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Yup. It’s failed in the playoffs, but has been incredibly successful in the regular season. There’s been bad stretches, but nothing like this.
 
IDK guys, maybe I saw less than I think but to me our PP the past few years looked out of sorts, the puck getting shot down the ice a lot, a lot of play in our own end, short handed chances given up but we had the fire power to overcome it, so on paper it looked good but really wasn't, if that makes sense, again maybe it's just me...lol
 
What I've seen on the pp this year, and especially lately, is that (1) pp2 is more direct with less passing around/standing around the perimeter waiting for the perfect play, and (2) pp2 players put more effort into winning puck battles. It hasn't really translated to goals, and that's partly the lower level of talent overall, but the process has looked better.

I think both Matthews and Knies are injured (Knies, despite his point totals and occasional power moves, overall looks slower to me), Nylander is in some kind of funk, Rielly is not a shot threat and moves the puck too slowly. Tavares is a beast but he is slow.

Mix up the damn units!

The one thing I did like last game was on pp2 with Domi swinging high up in the zone and then swooping back in with speed. So of course he comes out of the lineup, but I suppose Maccelli could play the same role.
 
ZBBM said:
I don't know how many of us on here have been saying the same thing for months. The PP goes stale regularly when they get to passing too much around the perimeter (i.e., they take a 2-minute rest break). This time they've been stale all season.

Their PP problems are way more than half due to coaching.
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I really don't buy that. I don't think they're saying get only 3 shots in 5 pps. I think Savard isn't a good PP coach but it's not like the players aren't given some latitude with being creative on the PP.
 
Leafs PP fell to last place in the league at 14%
Of the 314 seasons including this one by teams in the league since 2016-17 (when Matthews/Marner arrived), this season so far by the Leafs would rank 12th worst (303rd of 314 team seasons in the league since 2016-17)

Matthews, Nylander and Tavares are in the top 27 in PP scoring out of ~1350 forwards who played during that time.
Rielly & OEL are around top 27 in PP scoring out of 600+ dmen who played since Rielly came into the league.
With that kind of proven talent, the result is that much more incredible. They appear to have the talent - though some of it may have regressed with age/injuries ...

So I looked at one other thing. The Leafs scored 474 PP goals during the seasons Marner played for them. Marner scored or assisted on 228 of those goals, leading his team in PP scoring - in on 48% of those PP goals. Marner was their leading PP scorer in the playoffs too - in on a whopping 64% of those PP goals. I think part of the issue has been demonstrated as they're missing Marner's DNA on the PP and haven't figured out or solved how to replace it. Didn't see much of that DNA in the acquisitions Treliving brought in. And they have failed to adjust or compensate without it.

So it seems arguably unfair to blame this all on the coaching.
 
cw said:
Leafs PP fell to last place in the league at 14%
Of the 314 seasons including this one by teams in the league since 2016-17 (when Matthews/Marner arrived), this season so far by the Leafs would rank 12th worst (303rd of 314 team seasons in the league since 2016-17)

Matthews, Nylander and Tavares are in the top 27 in PP scoring out of ~1350 forwards who played during that time.
Rielly & OEL are around top 27 in PP scoring out of 600+ dmen who played since Rielly came into the league.
With that kind of proven talent, the result is that much more incredible. They appear to have the talent - though some of it may have regressed with age/injuries ...

So I looked at one other thing. The Leafs scored 474 PP goals during the seasons Marner played for them. Marner scored or assisted on 228 of those goals, leading his team in PP scoring - in on 48% of those PP goals. Marner was their leading PP scorer in the playoffs too - in on a whopping 64% of those PP goals. I think part of the issue has been demonstrated as they're missing Marner's DNA on the PP and haven't figured out or solved how to replace it. Didn't see much of that DNA in the acquisitions Treliving brought in. And they have failed to adjust or compensate without it.

So it seems arguably unfair to blame this all on the coaching.
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As I said our PP at least to me has looked a bit disconnected for a few years but we had the fire power to overcome it, now that Marner is gone and Matthews not himself we're seeing what's left, and it's not pretty.
 
Guilt Trip said:
Just like the team's struggles isn't just coaching, the fact is up until yesterday, they've literally refused to change up the personnel on the PP.
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Given where they are and what we've seen, I'm fumbling for adjectives for that. Words like bizarre or surreal ...

You can see Robertson is just drooling for some ice time. Like the energizer bunny, he's full tilt nearly every shift. Why not reward him in place of a floater? He's got a gun for a shot that can strike from anywhere.

What about McMann? He's on pace for another 20+ goal season. He's only 2 goals behind Nylander. He can shoot. Mucking about the front of the net is his office for scoring.
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Let the floaters watch them.
 
I think if they lose tonight I'm going to tap out and do other stuff for the rest of the season. At least that might let me see if the Leafs suck because I watch them.
 
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4EVRLEAFAN said:
I was 7 in 67 and I rarely miss a game, so no it's not you it's me. 🤣
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I was thinking about this. I wonder if the team will run into fan problems as they move farther away from 67. I was born in 76. I have never seen them in a cup final. I'm largely a Leaf fan because of my father. I have three sons, only one watches hockey and he is a Rangers fan.

My father is still faithful but he remembers them winning. I don't have any memories like that. I just have year over year of failures. Some failures sting less than others for sure, but I don't know if I can handle another 1 playoff season in a ten year run as this team fumbles through trying to build a competitive team again.

I guess my point is, if you don't have a base of success, at some point as a fan do you check out?
 
rdowdall said:
I think if they lose tonight I'm going to tap out and do other stuff for the rest of the season. At least that might let me see if the Leafs suck because I watch them.
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I thought it might be me, but I didn't watch last night and it sounds like they turned in another uninspiring performance.

I am tempted to put the game on tonight. In past years I would expect this to be a game where the Leafs show up and actually come out on top. However, I think this entire group - coaching staff and players - is too fragile right now. I expect another Edmonton-type game.
 
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