Captain Phaneuf

[ZBBM]

My apologies for the intemperate rants about Phaneuf last night.  I just get so bummed out watching that guy supposedly "lead" us.

What Proteus says above, and what several posters said late in the GDT, is true.  Phaneuf is set up to fail by being given too much ice and too much leadership responsibility, which he simply can't handle.

My hope is that Schenn can, under Carlyle's tutelage, turn into the shutodwn guy Proteus refers to above.  That, and a goalie, are our 2 biggest needs, miles ahead of anything on offense.  Just look the the GA during the death spiral.  Our defense killed our chances this year.

But if Schenn can't do it -- and soon -- deal him and find someone who can.  Too bad Komi didn't work out.  I'll give Burke credit for at least trying to find thte shutdown guy.

Whatever the case, it's imperative to cut Phaneuf's TOI considerably, and as long as Kessel's on the team the 2 of them should never been on together.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

They need to dial his minutes back significantly.

He should play 22 tops, I'd be happier at around 20.

We also need to be quicker to change on the PP, I hate seeing him play 90 or more of the 120 seconds of the PP when it is failing miserably.  I also don't think he is significantly better than Gardiner and Franson in this area if they where given the same opportunities.

The one play I have seen from him in the last few weeks, that was anything close to exceptional, was the back-check in OT against Edmonton where he chased the guy who had a 10 foot lead on him, he lifted the stick and we went the other way and won it.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

They need to dial his minutes back significantly.

He should play 22 tops, I'd be happier at around 20.

We also need to be quicker to change on the PP, I hate seeing him play 90 or more of the 120 seconds of the PP when it is failing miserably.  I also don't think he is significantly better than Gardiner and Franson in this area if they where given the same opportunities.

The one play I have seen from him in the last few weeks, that was anything close to exceptional, was the back-check in OT against Edmonton where he chased the guy who had a 10 foot lead on him, he lifted the stick and we went the other way and won it.

I agree completely. I don't think he should be the first one out there on the PP as well. I rather have Liles and Franson (or Gardiner) out there.

 

[Tigger]

Just so I have this right you guys are suggesting that Phaneuf, with the 4th highest PP totals among defensmen in the league right now with 21 PPp should be replaced with Franson who's career year, in terms of PP production, is this year with 7 PPp?

Truly nutty.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Just so I have this right you guys are suggesting that Phaneuf, with the 4th highest PP totals among defensmen in the league right now with 21 PPp should be replaced with Franson who's career year, in terms of PP production, is this year with 7 PPp?

Truly nutty.

An average power play is what 15%? You put the same guy out there for full 2 min for every PP chances are he will get a lot of points. It doesn't mean you can't try someone else.

 

[Tigger]

Just so I have this right you guys are suggesting that Phaneuf, with the 4th highest PP totals among defensmen in the league right now with 21 PPp should be replaced with Franson who's career year, in terms of PP production, is this year with 7 PPp?

Truly nutty.

An average power play is what 15%? You put the same guy out there for full 2 min for every PP chances are he will get a lot of points. It doesn't mean you can't try someone else.

Franson had 6 PPp with almost a full two minutes of PP toi with Nashville in each of his two seasons there so, no.

Also, a quick look at the list of PPtoi leaders shows a significant amount of dmen above Phaneuf ( Letang, Boyle, Doughty, Visnovsky, Del Zotto, Kaberle, Johnson, etc. ) yet with significantly lower production.

To suggest that Franson could do better just 'because' flies in the face of the reality of the situation.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Just so I have this right you guys are suggesting that Phaneuf, with the 4th highest PP totals among defensmen in the league right now with 21 PPp should be replaced with Franson who's career year, in terms of PP production, is this year with 7 PPp?

Truly nutty.

Show me in my post where I said that...

I said I don't think he is significantly better if Franson was given the same opportunity. 

This means, give Phaneuf more yes, but not 90 or so at least seconds of every PP.  Get him off quicker is all and I don't think it would hurt our PP significantly.

 

[Tigger]

Just so I have this right you guys are suggesting that Phaneuf, with the 4th highest PP totals among defensmen in the league right now with 21 PPp should be replaced with Franson who's career year, in terms of PP production, is this year with 7 PPp?

Truly nutty.

Show me in my post where I said that...

I said I don't think he is significantly better if Franson was given the same opportunity. 

This means, give Phaneuf more yes, but not 90 or so at least seconds of every PP.  Get him off quicker is all and I don't think it would hurt our PP significantly.

Sorry Wigwal, you got lumped in there when you were mostly talking about overall minutes. I don't really agree on Franson being potentially as productive, fwiw, Phaneuf has been pretty darn effective on the PP this year but I get the point, a little less might be a little more overall.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

No worries, I think we're on the same page for the most part.

 

[Fanatic]

I don't think Phaneuf looks like much of a leader now at all. No one can blame this whole mess on him, but when a team is this bad things have to happen. Wilson is gone and yet the problem continues. Ship Phaneuf out this summer and send a message that losing is not a culture that the Leafs will accept any longer.

 

[proteus2000]

I don't think Phaneuf looks like much of a leader now at all. No one can blame this whole mess on him, but when a team is this bad things have to happen. Wilson is gone and yet the problem continues. Ship Phaneuf out this summer and send a message that losing is not a culture that the Leafs will accept any longer.

And replace his 25:21 ATOI with whom next year? Weber and Suter sure aren't signing here. The Leafs' defense are all either plodding or soft, all have a tendency to make mistakes with the puck, and I still think Phaneuf is (sadly) the most trustworthy guy we have on the backend. When he plays 9 more minutes/game, 55% more, than Schenn/Franson/Komi etc, obviously his mistakes can stand out more. The Leafs need to scale back his minutes, but I don't think the coaching staff has had any justification to give more minutes to the other dmen.

Phaneuf is not the main issue with the team or defense. We won't have an answer via FA this year- no way does he get moved unless a team actually anties something up of value, which I doubt. Hopefully some of the younger dmen bring a more consistent game next yr enabling the Leafs to dump him and his $6.5 mil even for nothing.

 

[ontariojames]

What are your opinions on his skating? I've read some comments on here about his skating not being very good but I'm not sure if the people who made those comments were referring to his backwards skating or forwards skating. Skating has always been talked about as one of his strengths and he looks pretty fast to me when he's rushing the puck up the ice.

 

[Jalili]

What are your opinions on his skating? I've read some comments on here about his skating not being very good but I'm not sure if the people who made those comments were referring to his backwards skating or forwards skating. Skating has always been talked about as one of his strengths and he looks pretty fast to me when he's rushing the puck up the ice.

His mechanics aren't pretty, but he's got decent mobility for a D-man. It might be the way he skates that gives him a bad rap. Some guys are effortless skaters with smooth strides, and he's definitely not one of them.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

What are your opinions on his skating? I've read some comments on here about his skating not being very good but I'm not sure if the people who made those comments were referring to his backwards skating or forwards skating. Skating has always been talked about as one of his strengths and he looks pretty fast to me when he's rushing the puck up the ice.

His skating is fine.  The problem is his lack of leadership and his soft play at times. 

When questioned by a media guy about his leadership being a problem, Phaneuf deflected the criticsm.  My belief in leadership is, take the blame when things go sour and don't be deflecting the blame onto others.  It is up to the leader to set an example for the rest of the players and to be able to give them a kick in the rear end when they need it.  If Phaneuf said he failed as a captain and needed to do better, that he wasn't satisfied with his performance or that of the team, I would have been okay with that because he was speaking from the heart.  Now, if he did say something similar to that, I did not hear it.  Conversely, when the team does well, share the credit around because to make the other team members feel proud about the team's success.  A leader cannot accept sole success for the the team's success.

As for playing soft, it drove me crazy when he would do a soft poke check, hoping to take the puck away from the carrier, but it always resulted in the puck carrier blowing past Phaneuf, resulting in a goal or a scoring chance.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What are your opinions on his skating? I've read some comments on here about his skating not being very good but I'm not sure if the people who made those comments were referring to his backwards skating or forwards skating. Skating has always been talked about as one of his strengths and he looks pretty fast to me when he's rushing the puck up the ice.

One of my biggest problems with Phaneuf is that he doesn't rush the puck enough. I'll always remember that one play in overtime against Pittsburgh I think where he went end-to-end and passed off to Grabs who scored.

I seem to rememer that Wilson wasn't nuts about his defencemen carrying the puck, so hopefully we see that change a little under Randy.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When questioned by a media guy about his leadership being a problem, Phaneuf deflected the criticsm.

You're right:

?It?s part of being the captain of the team,? Phaneuf said. ?I definitely accept responsibility for the way this season has ended.

?I take that upon myself.?

 

[Tigger]

What are your opinions on his skating? I've read some comments on here about his skating not being very good but I'm not sure if the people who made those comments were referring to his backwards skating or forwards skating. Skating has always been talked about as one of his strengths and he looks pretty fast to me when he's rushing the puck up the ice.

One of my biggest problems with Phaneuf is that he doesn't rush the puck enough. I'll always remember that one play in overtime against Pittsburgh I think where he went end-to-end and passed off to Grabs who scored.

I seem to rememer that Wilson wasn't nuts about his defencemen carrying the puck, so hopefully we see that change a little under Randy.

It's fine for them to be able to rush it up the ice but Wilson wasn't wrong to me, you can pass it a lot faster than you can skate it.

Fwiw, Phaneuf isn't the worst skater I've ever seen.

I don't think he's ever really soft, sometimes he looks gassed though, a consideration where his minutes are concerned.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I don't think he's ever really soft, sometimes he looks gassed though, a consideration where his minutes are concerned.

That's it too me also, he plays so many minutes, that he gets gassed if he doesn't change when he probably should.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I don't think he's ever really soft, sometimes he looks gassed though, a consideration where his minutes are concerned.

That's it too me also, he plays so many minutes, that he gets gassed if he doesn't change when he probably should.

And you can always tell with him when he reaches that point because he stands around and watches the play.  I wonder with Carlyle's line-matching tendencies if we see shorter shifts (and maybe more of them) when the team plays next year.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

And you can always tell with him when he reaches that point because he stands around and watches the play.  I wonder with Carlyle's line-matching tendencies if we see shorter shifts (and maybe more of them) when the team plays next year.

Yeah, maybe, but I think Phaneuf will still be relied on heavily to carry the load on D.