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Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge

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Potvin29 said:
Maybe this will put the Carlyle vs. Gardiner stuff to rest for good?

?There?s this perception that Randy doesn?t like Jake Gardiner, and it?s comical,? Gordon said. ?I can?t tell you how many times that Randy has said that the thought of trading Jake can?t even be discussed until he?s played 300 games [in the NHL].

?He personally thinks it takes 300 games for a defenceman to get to the point where you can make a decision on them.?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/fired-leafs-assistant-coach-scott-gordon-speaks-out-complacency-killed-us/article18637941/
Maybe, but it doesn't exactly give Leafs fans much hope for anything to change.

Fiercely loyal to Randy Carlyle, who survived last week?s purge, Gordon said he believes part of what led to this season?s collapse was simply a sense of complacency among the players.

After taking the Boston Bruins to Game 7 in the playoffs last spring and starting the season 10-4-0, he explained, the team never fully heeded their coaches? message about the way they were winning games.


So.... the team was ignoring the coaching staff for over 80% of the season. Yeah, that's a ticket to success.
 
#1PilarFan said:
Potvin29 said:
Maybe this will put the Carlyle vs. Gardiner stuff to rest for good?

?There?s this perception that Randy doesn?t like Jake Gardiner, and it?s comical,? Gordon said. ?I can?t tell you how many times that Randy has said that the thought of trading Jake can?t even be discussed until he?s played 300 games [in the NHL].

?He personally thinks it takes 300 games for a defenceman to get to the point where you can make a decision on them.?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/fired-leafs-assistant-coach-scott-gordon-speaks-out-complacency-killed-us/article18637941/
Maybe, but it doesn't exactly give Leafs fans much hope for anything to change.

Fiercely loyal to Randy Carlyle, who survived last week?s purge, Gordon said he believes part of what led to this season?s collapse was simply a sense of complacency among the players.

After taking the Boston Bruins to Game 7 in the playoffs last spring and starting the season 10-4-0, he explained, the team never fully heeded their coaches? message about the way they were winning games.


So.... the team was ignoring the coaching staff for over 80% of the season. Yeah, that's a ticket to success.

And you've also got to question the source - a coach putting all the blame on the players, not his coaching.  I'm not saying absolve the players, it's almost certainly a shared blame, but it's not altogether surprising to read that from him.
 
I can't even begin to understand why any coach would admit that they were unable to coach their team effectively for so much of the season.
 
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.
 
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

Yes, I agree.
 
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

It'll probably be Dave Farrish in a toupee.
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

Yes, I agree.

You ever coached a hockey team before, son?  ;)
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
RedLeaf said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

Yes, I agree.

You ever coached a hockey team before, son?  ;)

Define "coached".

Do nothing and be "mind boggled" at the lack of success.
 
AvroArrow said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
RedLeaf said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

Yes, I agree.

You ever coached a hockey team before, son?  ;)

Define "coached".

Do nothing and be "mind boggled" at the lack of success.

Scott Gordon on Randy:

He?s definitely not a stand pat guy. On the outside, you don?t see the changes, because if they don?t work, you don?t know if they were changing or not.

 
mr grieves said:
Scott Gordon on Randy:

He?s definitely not a stand pat guy. On the outside, you don?t see the changes, because if they don?t work, you don?t know if they were changing or not.

So, you only notice his changes when they work? To me, that says the changes he's attempted to make were minor, because major changes would be noticed regardless of success.
 
Gordon is full of it.  Carlyle was the least flexible coach I've ever seen behind the Leafs bench, worse even than Wilson.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Gordon is full of it.  Carlyle was the least flexible coach I've ever seen behind the Leafs bench, worse even than Wilson.

I don't know if you can say he's the 'least' flexible coach.

I personally think it's a combination of a stubborn coach and a team that cannot be 'flexed'
 
Carlyle needs to adaptsystem to fit the team he has. He refuses to do that. Plus he needs to use fourth line more. It showed at the end of the season as the top line and top players were tired. To do tat he needs to getrid of two of his favorites Orr and McClaren.
 
FWIW Casey got an extension with the Raptors, and at that time I was not cool with that idea either, but also believed the problem was at the GM level.  The problem for Casey was although he did have a system he did not not the right parts due to the inefficiencies at the GM level.  With a decent GM who was able to make key acquisitions to provide Casey with the players he could work with, and players who could play under that system, Casey was able to turn the Raptors into a playoff team.  And the picture is very promising for the Raptors future, especially if they can resign Lowry.

That differs totally from the Leafs situation as the Nonis was in place when RC cola was hired.  RC cola had his system for Leaf players to play under and it was up to Nonis to provide players that could play under RC cola's system.  However, RC cola's system was flawed but Nonis did nothing to accommodate RC cola by providing him with players who could potentially play under that system.

After considering and comparing the Leafs situation to the Raptors, I am willing to give a pass to both Nonis and RC cola, just to prove that both have no idea what they are doing to develop stability and success to the Leaf team, or that things were so screwed up last season with player personnel that Nonis needs time to provide RC with the personnel that will fit his system and bring success to the Leafs.  I beleive Nonis gave RC cola a vote of confidence with Shanahan.  I also believe that RC cola's system is so flawed that at some point during the season Shanahan will have no choice but to fire both Nonis and RC cola and under the mandate of Lieweke, hire both a GM and coach who will provide stability and success to the team that fans have been waiting for, for over 10 years.
 
Optimus Reimer said:
hire both a GM and coach who will provide stability and success to the team that fans have been waiting for, for over 10 years.

You had me until this part.  Leafs GMs all the way back to Ferguson (or even Quinn, Fletcher) have been under pressure to produce results in the short term and I don't see it changing the next rotation of this merry-go-round. 

Even if any of those guys (or the next guy) wanted to provide the stability and have the patience you are talking about, they are pushed to make hasty moves by the 1 series of playoff revenue expected on corporate balance sheets.  The entire attitude from the top down is toxic to long term success. 

Shanahan...did they hire him to change this or just reinforce it?  We'll see but I'm not getting hopes up again like I did for Burke who in his arrogance fell right into the trap, got chewed up and spit out by this failure machine.
 
AvroArrow said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
RedLeaf said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
L K said:
Mueller joins Hitchcock in St. Louis as an assistant, so scratch one qualified assistant coach off the list.  But it's cool.  I'm sure we'll hire some top notch yes men.

Yes, I agree.

You ever coached a hockey team before, son?  ;)

Define "coached".

Do nothing and be "mind boggled" at the lack of success.

LOL
 
Optimus Reimer said:
That differs totally from the Leafs situation as the Nonis was in place when RC cola was hired.  RC cola had his system for Leaf players to play under and it was up to Nonis to provide players that could play under RC cola's system.  However, RC cola's system was flawed but Nonis did nothing to accommodate RC cola by providing him with players who could potentially play under that system.

Isn't accommodating the coach and providing him players that'd best be able to play under his system what the Bozak re-signing, Clarkson signing, and Bolland trade were all about?

Nonis, on Free Agency day last summer:
?The good news for me is it?s not my problem anymore. It?s up to Randy,? Nonis said. ?I?ve done what I can do. But we?re pretty happy with our top nine [forwards], I think we?ll be pretty competitive and I think our fourth line will be hard to play against. I can tell you our coach is happy with the options we have in a lot of areas.?

Edit: I'd forgotten about the 4th line part of that quote. Good grief.
 
mr grieves said:
Optimus Reimer said:
That differs totally from the Leafs situation as the Nonis was in place when RC cola was hired.  RC cola had his system for Leaf players to play under and it was up to Nonis to provide players that could play under RC cola's system.  However, RC cola's system was flawed but Nonis did nothing to accommodate RC cola by providing him with players who could potentially play under that system.

Isn't accommodating the coach and providing him players that'd best be able to play under his system what the Bozak re-signing, Clarkson signing, and Bolland trade were all about?

Nonis, on Free Agency day last summer:
?The good news for me is it?s not my problem anymore. It?s up to Randy,? Nonis said. ?I?ve done what I can do. But we?re pretty happy with our top nine [forwards], I think we?ll be pretty competitive and I think our fourth line will be hard to play against. I can tell you our coach is happy with the options we have in a lot of areas.?

You don't see a gulf between "our coach is happy with the options we have" and "we did this specifically as per the coach's request"?
 
Nik the Trik said:
You don't see a gulf between "our coach is happy with the options we have" and "we did this specifically as per the coach's request"?

I'm not saying that Randy Carlyle couldn't imagine players he'd rather have. Just that Nonis made some moves a lot of us thought strange at the time. Pretty obviously, moves were made with 'fit in the coach's system' as their primary justification.

Scott Gordon:
AP: Upfront you added Bolland Clarkson, and subtracted Grabovski, MacArthur, Frattin and Komarov. Are you concerned about losing depth?

SG: Well I think with adding Bolland and Clarkson those two players are probably guys that are going to fit our style of play more consistently, with the exception of Komarov. Komarov was a guy we would have loved to have back but obviously he got a good deal in Russia and has to do what?s best for him. But the style of play of Bolland and Clarkson play fits our team identity and we?re excited about them.

Dave Poulin:
AB: How do you see the season Grabovski had last year, and the circumstances leading up to his buyout? He took on some tough assignments last season.

DP: He did. He did without question. But we felt as a group that he didn?t fit with what we are doing right now. You look down the middle and you had the continued growth of Nazem Kadri in that position, you had the play of Tyler Bozak, then you had the addition of Dave Bolland and the play of Jay McClement. You?ve essentially got four pieces there that we feel fit what we?re doing and the direction we?re going in, and in that circumstance we didn?t feel Grabo fit.
 
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