Coach Mike Babcock

[mr grieves]

Well, I'm sure he wouldn't say anything that could be construed to mean fans should expect to sign Stamkos. Managing expectations has been the group's communications strategy for a year now. This seems consistent with that.

Sure, but the thing about those kinds of players getting added later on in the process is also consistent with the truth.

Except who are "those kinds of players"? Who are the truly elite, core-worthy players with good years ahead that have been available to sign as UFAs? It's a pretty short list. Chara's probably the best of them. And Boston didn't hurt itself by passing because they'd only just recently moved out their captain, bottomed out, and drafted relatively high.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think he meant this...

Darren Dreger: Does it tempt you, though, to look outside and maybe add a piece here or there, whether it?s a goalie or a defenceman or what have you? Or do you first have to learn what you?ve got? Or are you at a point now where you think you?ve got a pretty good handle on what you?ve got coming?

Mike Babcock: I think you?ve always got to be adding pieces. You know the pieces you don?t have. In saying that, those big pieces that fans and media fantasize about are usually added when your team is ready, not when your team is growing. We?re in the growing phase

He also said, at another point in the interview, that he's had a lot of time to rehearse his misleading, non-answers.

That's a pretty straightforward answer, though. He's all but saying that we shouldn't expect the team to sign Stamkos.

Well if there's one thing we know from this management team is that they love to tip their hand. 

 

[Frank E]

I think he meant this...

Darren Dreger: Does it tempt you, though, to look outside and maybe add a piece here or there, whether it?s a goalie or a defenceman or what have you? Or do you first have to learn what you?ve got? Or are you at a point now where you think you?ve got a pretty good handle on what you?ve got coming?

Mike Babcock: I think you?ve always got to be adding pieces. You know the pieces you don?t have. In saying that, those big pieces that fans and media fantasize about are usually added when your team is ready, not when your team is growing. We?re in the growing phase

He also said, at another point in the interview, that he's had a lot of time to rehearse his misleading, non-answers.

That's a pretty straightforward answer, though. He's all but saying that we shouldn't expect the team to sign Stamkos.

Well if there's one thing we know from this management team is that they love to tip their hand. 

...is exactly what I was thinking...temper your expectations Mr. Stamkos.  If you want to come it'll be on MLSE's terms.

 

[Kin]

Except who are "those kinds of players"? Who are the truly elite, core-worthy players with good years ahead that have been available to sign as UFAs? It's a pretty short list. Chara's probably the best of them. And Boston didn't hurt itself by passing because they'd only just recently moved out their captain, bottomed out, and drafted relatively high.

Except now you're moving the goalposts by trying to make everything fit your read of Stamkos, his precise situation and what he'll be after this year. Babcock didn't say "You know, the thing about 26 year old UFA centers named Steve is..." but rather talked about the big pieces teams add "from outside". So something like Anaheim trading for Pronger or or LA trading for Jeff Carter both play into what Babcock is saying even if they're not identical situations to Stamkos. He's making a broad point that's been made a lot on the board, successful teams tend to figure out what they have internally first, then they look externally to address/complement what they don't have.

 

[mr grieves]

Except who are "those kinds of players"? Who are the truly elite, core-worthy players with good years ahead that have been available to sign as UFAs? It's a pretty short list. Chara's probably the best of them. And Boston didn't hurt itself by passing because they'd only just recently moved out their captain, bottomed out, and drafted relatively high.

Except now you're moving the goalposts by trying to make everything fit your read of Stamkos, his precise situation and what he'll be after this year. Babcock didn't say "You know, the thing about 26 year old UFA centers named Steve is..." but rather talked about the big pieces teams add "from outside". So something like Anaheim trading for Pronger or or LA trading for Jeff Carter both play into what Babcock is saying even if they're not identical situations to Stamkos. He's making a broad point that's been made a lot on the board, successful teams tend to figure out what they have internally first, then they look externally to address/complement what they don't have.

Moving the goalposts is a charge that could go both ways.

All I did was put Stamkos in his proper context: not any sought-after UFA who might be thought to "put us over the top," of which there are a few every year, but an actually elite (1OA) player in his prime. And I was talking about signing free agents because that's the decision facing the Leafs presently.

You decided to introduce trades into the discussion. Okay. I don't think the Leafs should be parting with any high-ceiling assets looking for their own Jeff Carter until they know what they have.

That I don't think they should be trading for specific pieces isn't inconsistent with the position that they shouldn't just pass on trying to sign the sort of elite talent that is rarely available to sign if such a player is available to sign at a less than conventional time.

 

[Kin]

All I did was put Stamkos in his proper context: not any sought-after UFA who might be thought to "put us over the top," of which there are a few every year, but an actually elite (1OA) player in his prime. And I was talking about signing free agents because that's the decision facing the Leafs presently.

But what Babcock was talking about was just adding big pieces externally. That's what i said he was right about, regardless of how teams do it. "Elite" is not a quantitative term and so there is no actual distinction between signing guys like Hossa or Richards and Stamkos other than an arbitrary one. What Babcock said is largely true, regardless of how those players are added or how good they are.

You decided to introduce trades into the discussion. Okay. I don't think the Leafs should be parting with any high-ceiling assets looking for their own Jeff Carter until they know what they have.

No, Babcock did. You just decided to largely ignore what he said in favour of talking about signing Stamkos. Speaking of which, are you in favour of the Leafs signing Stamkos? It'd be good if you could clear that up.

I don't think the Leafs should be parting with any high-ceiling assets looking for their own Jeff Carter until they know what they have.

I agree. One of the benefits of finding out what they have is finding out what good assets they have that are surplus and can be used to go out and trade for someone like Carter. You know, like the Kings did with Carter or the Ducks did with Pronger or the Kings did with Gaborik or the Penguins did with Hossa. Trades, by the way, that look pretty good even in situations where players weren't re-signed or cups weren't won because these organizations could tell which of their young assets were essential and which weren't. What they didn't do was assume that all of their top young assets were going to be world beaters and start signing players around that concept.

Successful teams adding big pieces after they've already done their building. Like Babcock, you know, said.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

One year anniversary!

I love the sour grapes coming from the Sabres' blogger on Hockeybuzz (I know, I know).  Now Buffalo is the smart team, and the Leafs are in instant turmoil, with Dubas and Hunter sure to be screwed over by Babcock  ;D

Elliotte Friedman confirms that the Leafs have signed off on giving Babcock player personnel decision making power. In other words, Babcock now has the juice to back door his GM whenever he wants to. I would hate to be Toronto's new GM. Keep your head on a swivel Mark Hunter and Kyle Dubas. Babcock's ego may become intolerable in Toronto. I applaud Tim Murray for sticking to his guns and no giving total personnel permission and control to Babcock. Looks like that was the deal breaker in Buffalo.

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

I was going through the first few posts and remembered this gem on page 2. Classic.

 

[rdowdall]

One year anniversary!

I love the sour grapes coming from the Sabres' blogger on Hockeybuzz (I know, I know).  Now Buffalo is the smart team, and the Leafs are in instant turmoil, with Dubas and Hunter sure to be screwed over by Babcock  ;D

Elliotte Friedman confirms that the Leafs have signed off on giving Babcock player personnel decision making power. In other words, Babcock now has the juice to back door his GM whenever he wants to. I would hate to be Toronto's new GM. Keep your head on a swivel Mark Hunter and Kyle Dubas. Babcock's ego may become intolerable in Toronto. I applaud Tim Murray for sticking to his guns and no giving total personnel permission and control to Babcock. Looks like that was the deal breaker in Buffalo.

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

I was going through the first few posts and remembered this gem on page 2. Classic.

I've been watching a lot of these interviews with the Canadian players before the games, and it's funny how they all sound the same.  I think literally every single player has said "We just need to play our game, and not worry what the other team is doing".  It has cropped up in every single interview that I have seen. 

I was wondering if we saw that sort of consistent messaging from the Leafs this year?  It was a long season, and I honestly just couldn't come up with some examples where the players all seemed to be on the same page.  This isn't a shot at Babcock, as it may just be a byproduct of it being a long season versus a short tournament.  Obviously there is the organizational mantra or patience, but I was thinking more specifically to style of play of the team. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

Wow what a jerk.  Taking an offer and seeing if the other side would match it.  Totally not standard negotiating practice at all.

 

[Al14]

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

Wow what a jerk.  Taking an offer and seeing if the other side would match it.  Totally not standard negotiating practice at all.

Pffft.  I've done this many times when buying cars.  I've literally saved thousands of dollars. LOL

 

[jonlleafs]

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

Wow what a jerk.  Taking an offer and seeing if the other side would match it.  Totally not standard negotiating practice at all.

Pffft.  I've done this many times when buying cars.  I've literally saved thousands of dollars. LOL

You're such a jerk.  You just cause the dealership and salesman to lose a lot of money.  Hope you're happy with yourself.

 

[Al14]

So, Babcock's agent took Buffalo's best financial offer to Toronto and the Leafs agrees to meet it.

All the more reason for Sabres fans to hate the Maple Leafs.

Greasy move, Mike.

Wow what a jerk.  Taking an offer and seeing if the other side would match it.  Totally not standard negotiating practice at all.

Pffft.  I've done this many times when buying cars.  I've literally saved thousands of dollars. LOL

You're such a jerk.  You just cause the dealership and salesman to lose a lot of money.  Hope you're happy with yourself.

Better money in my pocket then having them laugh at me for paying too much! 

I once helped my daughter to buy a car.  Actually, there were two identical used cars available.  Another dad and his daughter were bidding on them at the same time.  I got the one car, with less mileage, for my daughter at $1,000 dollars less than the other family.  The dealership general manager congratulated me for helping him sell both cars that day.  He said he made good money on the other sale using me as leverage.

So, yeah, if saving money makes me a jerk.  I gladly accept the title!  LOL

 

[Highlander]

Mr. Jerk to you, as the Donald would say "thats the art of the deal"

 

[McGarnagle]

1) There's no such thing as two identical used cars.
2) sar?don?ic
s?rˈd?nik/
adjective
adjective: sardonic

    grimly mocking or cynical.

 

[Highlander]

Yes but one car has less milage!

 

[Al14]

Yes but one car has less milage!

Sorry, the cars had all the same options, body style etc.  There was around 1,000 KM more on the 'other' car. Oh, and, one was red, the other was purple! 

So yes, they were only partially identical.  However, the list price was the same on both.  LOL

 

[herman]

[tweet]738020783914651652[/tweet]

Stupid rule that was only applicable for this past year that we got tapped on twice.

Still friggin' worth it.

 

[TBLeafer]

[tweet]738430389144846336[/tweet]

 

[Al14]

[tweet]738430389144846336[/tweet]

Meaningless, but, congratulations none the same. LOL

 

[Al14]

[tweet]738020783914651652[/tweet]

Stupid rule that was only applicable for this past year that we got tapped on twice.

Still friggin' worth it.

Definately worth it for Babcock!  I'm not sure yet if Lou is worth it.  He probably is, but, I'm not convinced quite yet.