Coaching and management changes around the league

[herman]

https://x.com/puckreportnhl/status/1703503594761158903
Yeah that?d be well out of bounds.

 

[Zee]

Thought this tweet/info from Jack Han is also worth mentioning:

https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1701669871547765070

It says a lot about how garbage spittin chiclets is that they could find a story to bash Mike Babcock of all people where they end up looking like the toxic ones.

Thoughts?

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thought this tweet/info from Jack Han is also worth mentioning:

https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1701669871547765070

It says a lot about how garbage spittin chiclets is that they could find a story to bash Mike Babcock of all people where they end up looking like the toxic ones.

Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1703504331205419231

 

[Frank E]

https://twitter.com/puckreportnhl/status/1703503594761158903
Yeah that?d be well out of bounds.

Yes, that's different than asking to see a picture of your family.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1703545276454088717

Jack Han?s story: that?s fine, no big deal, group bonding exercise.

What Jenner and Gaudreau described, that?s fine, if done gracefully.

Asking for and/or taking some guy?s phone for several minutes outside the hockey facilities to ?get to know him? by scrolling through his camera roll is outside his scope as a coach. I don?t even know how or why a professional coach puts himself in that situation. That?s not old school or new school coaching.

Walsh?s wording vs Babcock?s is pretty much how all those Babcock post-Marner-List statements have gone.

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1703545276454088717

Jack Han?s story: that?s fine, no big deal, group bonding exercise.

What Jenner and Gaudreau described, that?s fine, if done gracefully.

Asking for and/or taking some guy?s phone for several minutes outside the hockey facilities to ?get to know him? by scrolling through his camera roll is outside his scope as a coach. I don?t even know how or why a professional coach puts himself in that situation. That?s not old school or new school coaching.

Walsh?s wording vs Babcock?s is pretty much how all those Babcock post-Marner-List statements have gone.

I thought that being humbled by his firing in Toronto and away from the game for a years might make a guy reflect on his past behavior and try to improve, but nope, Babcock will Babcock.

 

[herman]

https://x.com/wyshynski/status/1703550283823865920

According to a source with knowledge of the NHLPA, it became clear that veteran players like Jenner were having a much different experience with Babcock than young players were having.

What was reported by Bissonnette was "the tip of the iceberg," according to a source.

Public statements are the sanitized versions

 

[cw]

I have mixed feelings about this.
This time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

The fact that a coach as decorated as Babcock could be held to account is a good thing. The safety of the players is better for it.

A reputation of coach who has won a heck of of a lot of what there was for a coach to win has been permanently damaged. For Babcock, it is a personal tragedy. For the young players he upset, some element of justice has been served.

It is not a wholesome story promoting the game of hockey in a completely good way.

 

[herman]

This time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

Social media is absolutely not the 'proper' process for this, but time and time again we've seen the proper procedure generally amounts to everything being swept under the rug. That players felt safer going to Spittin' Chiclets (not even a news outlet), in and of itself, is an indictment of that process.

[*] Go to the team: look at their statement. They didn't even check in on all the players. Conflict of interest as well in reporting against their high profile coaching hire.
[*] Go to your team leaders: I don't know if they even did in this situation. Each team varies in response. Bergeron's response to the Miller signing was impressive.
[*] Go to the NHL: lol
[*] Go to the NHLPA: your mileage may vary, but the way this was handled by the PA should give players some confidence in the new union leaders.
[*] Go to TSN/ESPN/beat writers: these guys are access-merchants. You can see how many of them jumped to back the CBJ press release and generally turn a blind eye to any skeletons sticking out of the ice. How many of them sat on the Marner-list story until it was 'safe'?
[*] Go to Spittin' Chiclets: these guys may be tools and work under a toxic parent company banner, but can't say they don't back players when there's a clear violation.

 

[dappleganger]

I mean unless there's new/worse details I'm still not sure this seems worthy of this level of attention, but if players were uncomfortable with it they're obviously fully entitled to bring those concerns up the chain.

As long as Babcock didn't take the phones out of the player's possession I think this is a nothingburger. It's been established Babcock has done this activity in the past, with no one saying "he took my phone and starting going through it" and until that changes I think this is weird but not a gross violation of people's rights to privacy. We know people have a vendetta against Babcock and I also consider that in all this.

He did the thing.

 

[rdowdall]

This time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

Social media is absolutely not the 'proper' process for this, but time and time again we've seen the proper procedure generally amounts to everything being swept under the rug. That players felt safer going to Spittin' Chiclets (not even a news outlet), in and of itself, is an indictment of that process.

[*] Go to the team: look at their statement. They didn't even check in on all the players. Conflict of interest as well in reporting against their high profile coaching hire.
[*] Go to your team leaders: I don't know if they even did in this situation. Each team varies in response. Bergeron's response to the Miller signing was impressive.
[*] Go to the NHL: lol
[*] Go to the NHLPA: your mileage may vary, but the way this was handled by the PA should give players some confidence in the new union leaders.
[*] Go to TSN/ESPN/beat writers: these guys are access-merchants. You can see how many of them jumped to back the CBJ press release and generally turn a blind eye to any skeletons sticking out of the ice. How many of them sat on the Marner-list story until it was 'safe'?
[*] Go to Spittin' Chiclets: these guys may be tools and work under a toxic parent company banner, but can't say they don't back players when there's a clear violation.

Credit where credit is due.  The Spittin' Chiclets twitter brought this to light and ultimately the right thing happened before it got worse.  I think the Columbus Blue Jackets organization needs to take a step back and really ask how this happened.  As you say, if you are hiring a controversial coach, maybe you hire someone for the first month that just checks in on the players.  I guess even then though, the players may not feel comfortable talking about it.  Maybe you just don't let Babcock deal with the players one on one, like ever. 

Carlo on the radio this morning said that as a coach, no coach made him a better player than Babcock, but there was all this other stuff that taints that. 

 

[Guilt Trip]

It's been said many many times...Babs is a great coach but a horrible human. My guess is CBJ thought he'd learned his lesson but apparently not. Modano, Franzen, Spezza, Marner and now this will be all that most remember about him...and you know there's so many more.

 

[herman]

Apparently the Team, League, and PA were ready to shelve this on Tuesday, after the statements and initial questions asked, but Elliott Friedman reports (32T pod) that players from other teams notified the PA that young players were uncomfortable (especially with that situation referenced above).

 

[archie holdsworth]

Something I've been thinking about and may as well throw in. If Mike Babcock is as toxic as has been alleged, what effect did that have (if any) on the very young and very talented Leafs team that he coached?

Would the Leafs be further ahead or behind if Babcock had never coached them? An unanswerable question, but feel free to speculate.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

I get who we're talking about, but I sit here having watched the podcasts, read the posts and for whatever reason something just doesn't feel right. Can't stand the guy but I just don't feel right about this.

 

[Bender]

There is no chance in hell I'm giving my employer my own private photos on my phone to review. That's just ridiculous. If he asked for a picture of my family I'm all for it, but anything beyond that is an invasion of privacy for literally no justifiable reason.

 

[Guilt Trip]

This story still seems to me to be blown out of proportion more than it needs to be.

I don't see the harm asking the players to see photos of their family as a means to get to know them on a personable level.

Now, if he asked them to hand over their phone and he was scrolling through the pics at his discretion, then yeah, that is creepy.  No guy wants someone else looking at their phone (particularly their wife or significant other haha).

As mentioned above, if this was Dubas he'd be considered a saint being so personable.  But it being Babcock, who is known to be an unsympathetic jerk, he will not be given any benefit of the doubt.  Even still, I think this is relatively harmless, provided he's not scrolling through and stumbling across a bunch of inappropriate private photos.

Totally disagree. You don't need to see my PERSONAL pics to get to know me. It's one thing for a player to volunteer them and another to ask to see them. And asking a  player who doesn't want to share puts them in a very awkward position seeing they will most likely feel pressure to show them because of Babs' power. Add in It's creepy.
There's a reason they're expanding the investigation.

Does a teacher who asks their students to bring in photos of their family for a family tree or a timeline cross the line?

If someone who I'm chatting with, whether I know them or barely do says, "You have three kids...you're busy and blessed...do you mind sharing a photo of them so I can see what they look like?", I don't take it as anything more than curiosity and happily oblige. 

Now, if someone says, "You have a teenage daughter eh...would love to see a picture of her," then I'd take that as downright creepy.

Who the heck knows where this story falls.  I'd like to think Babcock is not stupid to have this be anything more than genuine interest in getting to know a player on a personal level.  Since this was done with every player, I also don't feel he was picking on or isolating certain players, nor made it an attempt to stumble on scandalous or nude photos or something.

Babs is an idiot and like O Dog said, it's so he can have something on everyone. This getting to know you garbage  is pure bull#$#%.
So someone you barely knows asks to see pics of your kids and you think that's ok? Sorry that's creepy. I've never ever met anyone who's asked that isn't a close personal friend and that is beyond rare because you typically volunteer pics with your closest friends. Now you wanna, see my dog.
As for a teacher asking. If there's no note going home outlining the project, yes it's over the line. Chances are though the teacher will send something home to inform the parents, who ultimately have the final say.

 

[L K]

There is a power divide and looking through someones phone isn't the same thing as asking for show and tell.

I don't really understand how that isn't pretty obvious.

Can I see photos of your kids vs. give me your phone to see those photos are two completely different requests.  One is reasonable, the other is absurd.  If you don't know that in 2023 you shouldn't be coaching.

 

[Peter D.]

Babs is an idiot and like O Dog said, it's so he can have something on everyone. This getting to know you garbage  is pure bull#$#%.
So someone you barely knows asks to see pics of your kids and you think that's ok? Sorry that's creepy. I've never ever met anyone who's asked that isn't a close personal friend and that is beyond rare because you typically volunteer pics with your closest friends. Now you wanna, see my dog.
As for a teacher asking. If there's no note going home outlining the project, yes it's over the line. Chances are though the teacher will send something home to inform the parents, who ultimately have the final say.

Yes, whenever I'd had a new boss or co-workers ask to see photos of my family, I have never felt the least bit uncomfortable showing a photo from my phone or pulling up some on my computer screen.  As for a teacher seeing a note home, I really see no difference.  Asking an adult for verbal permission and choosing to do so is practically the same as sending a note home.

Regardless, what's come out on the story is pure insanity.  Babcock actually asking to scroll through players' phones is sheer stupidity.  No one wants anyone touching their phone and going through it, so don't know how he thought this was acceptable. Wonder how he coerced those uncomfortable (presumably the younger players) into this since veterans like Jenner and Gaudreau saw nothing wrong with what he did.

 

[Zee]

Those are quite the allegations you're making there on O'Dog with no evidence or rumors of the sort about him.

Yeah, you're right.  I've removed it.

I'm just talking broad picture here and the filth that is the NHL "culture".  The bullying of young players from junior to draft eligibility to their first few years in the NHL is prominent, and isn't independent to Babcock.