Contracts for the Big-3

[Kin]

No, I'm not going to help you self-validate, no matter how long you drag it out. You can only be the authority if people cede to it. You'll realize it's a favour at some point down the line.

Yeah, well, I guess we'll just have to leave it at me continuing to think I'm the ultimate authority on the meaning of the things I say.

Solid contribution though. Really made me think about me and my ways.

 

[Zee]

It all adds up. Leafs will only have played 13 games by November 1st, why not play it by ear and see how the team is doing. If they get along fine without Nylander they learn to play while missing guys in the future due to injury or what not.  Then once Nylander gets back you inject more skill and team gets a boost. As long as the Leafs are winning games I don't see this as an issue, in fact it's a benefit

That raises the issue of what "fine" is in context. Is it maintaining a playoff spot? Staying ahead of Tampa? Challenging for 1st in the conference? Because I think most of us were kind of hoping that the Leafs could make some real noise this year and that's why a few points here or there could be significant things. If home ice advantage is determined in the 2nd or 3rd round by the Leafs either winning or losing a few points in the early months, I think that's a pretty terrible gamble.

Not really, this is a long term play not just this season. The Leafs are concerned about making it all fit for the next 7 years, a few weeks or even 2 months without Nylander is small potatoes compared to that.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

No, I'm not going to help you self-validate, no matter how long you drag it out. You can only be the authority if people cede to it. You'll realize it's a favour at some point down the line.

Yeah, well, I guess we'll just have to leave it at me continuing to think I'm the ultimate authority on the meaning of the things I say.

Solid contribution though. Really made me think about me and my ways.

Great! Well, you know, journey of a thousand miles, etc etc.

 

[Kin]

Not really, this is a long term play not just this season. The Leafs are concerned about making it all fit for the next 7 years, a few weeks or even 2 months without Nylander is small potatoes compared to that.

Yes really. I get that you think otherwise, and that's fine, but there's no right or wrong when it comes to whether or not 300K in cap savings over the next few years or the points that could play a significant role in whether or not the Leafs have a successful season are the smaller potatoes.

Something I've hinted at before is that I think the Leafs will have a much easier time getting guys to sign at discounts if they're actually successful as a team and I think next summer is when that will maybe be most important. So I think this year could be very significant and something they shouldn't be cavalier about.

 

[Zee]

Not really, this is a long term play not just this season. The Leafs are concerned about making it all fit for the next 7 years, a few weeks or even 2 months without Nylander is small potatoes compared to that.

Yes really. I get that you think otherwise, and that's fine, but there's no right or wrong when it comes to whether or not 300K in cap savings over the next few years or the points that could play a significant role in whether or not the Leafs have a successful season are the smaller potatoes.

Something I've hinted at before is that I think the Leafs will have a much easier time getting guys to sign at discounts if they're actually successful as a team and I think next summer is when that will maybe be most important. So I think this year could be very significant and something they shouldn't be cavalier about.

I don't think the Leafs going deep and winning the Cup would convince players to take discounts, it would actually have the opposite effect. Look no further than Draisaitl who signed his big deal hot off the heels of a big playoff performance. Once players perform in the playoffs they'll use that as leverage in negotiations as well to drive up their price.

 

[Kin]

Great! Well, you know, journey of a thousand miles, etc etc.

See, I like what he said about contentment more.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMRgmmnIrDU

Sorry, if you want me to keep going, you're going to have to pay for another five minutes.

 

[Kin]

I don't think the Leafs going deep and winning the Cup would convince players to take discounts, it would actually have the opposite effect. Look no further than Draisaitl who signed his big deal hot off the heels of a big playoff performance. Once players perform in the playoffs they'll use that as leverage in negotiations as well to drive up their price.

See, when I'm talking about "Team Success" I'm really talking about more than getting knocked out in the 2nd round.

 

[Kin]

Sorry, if you want me to keep going, you're going to have to pay for another five minutes.

Right. And, for argument's sake, what would I have to pay you to stop?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Sorry, if you want me to keep going, you're going to have to pay for another five minutes.

Right. And, for argument's sake, what would I have to pay you to stop?

I imagine my rates start with a 6, vs yours with a 8.

 

[Kin]

I imagine my rates start with a 6, vs yours with a 8.

Pffft. Someone making me that offer would have to think less Leon Draisaitl and more Johnny Phoenix.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I imagine my rates start with a 6, vs yours with a 8.

Pffft. Someone making me that offer would have to think less Leon Draisaitl and more Johnny Phoenix.

Yes, no question it's an overpayment, but it all comes down to how badly one wants it to happen.

 

[Kin]

Yes, no question it's an overpayment, but it all comes down to how badly one wants it to happen.

Well, the important thing is that I've finally found the Dave McNally to my Andy Messersmith. Union forever.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Yes, no question it's an overpayment, but it all comes down to how badly one wants it to happen.

Well, the important thing is that I've finally found the Dave McNally to my Andy Messersmith. Union forever.

Messersmith didn't live up to the value of his contract, but was apparently fine with not having the last word. I can see half of that as a good attribution.

 

[Kin]

Messersmith didn't live up to the value of his contract, but was apparently fine with not having the last word. I can see half of that as a good attribution.

See, I always took the Messersmith story to be one of the things we're willing to sacrifice in pursuit of principle. I'm not sure if you've ever read John Helyar's terrific The Lords of the Realm but your categorization of reducing him to only his Braves contract seems off. To a lot of people, the fight he was in was one that only would have been possible by means of being as stubborn as he was. By the end of his time negotiating with the Dodgers apparently they were willing to give him more or less whatever he wanted financially so he wouldn't test the reserve clause but for him it had become a more important issue that he was doggedly determined to see through to the bitter end.

In the end, I think Messersmith certainly did get the last word. His stubbornness, or principles I'm not one to quibble, forever changed the world of sports and almost certainly led directly to situations like the one the Leafs find themselves in with ol' Willy Nylander. I suppose we can only hope that Nylander isn't quite as Messersmith-y as others although, I'm sure you won't be surprised, I do think there's something admirable there if he is.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Messersmith didn't live up to the value of his contract, but was apparently fine with not having the last word. I can see half of that as a good attribution.

In the end, I think Messersmith certainly did get the last word. His stubbornness, or principles I'm not one to quibble, forever changed the world of sports and almost certainly led directly to situations like the one the Leafs find themselves in with ol' Willy Nylander. I suppose we can only hope that Nylander isn't quite as Messersmith-y as others although, I'm sure you won't be surprised, I do think there's something admirable there if he is.

Well, that's a very impressive half-pivot and recovery back to the neutral zone of the thread title, and I suppose it's better that it came via baseball analogies instead of jughead comics. 

 

[Kin]

Well, that's a very impressive half-pivot and recovery back to the neutral zone of the thread title, and I suppose it's better that it came via baseball analogies instead of jughead comics.

Hey, if Jughead won't go to the mountain, I'll bring the mountain to Jughead.

 

[freer]

IMO

Nylander is worth 6.2 -6.5
Marner is worth 7 - 7.5
Matthews is worth 9.0 - 9.5

John has proven he can do it year in year out, but honestly I dont think he is worth 11 mil. No player in the league is worth that. But I do think Kadri is better then Nylander.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[Zee]

IMO

Nylander is worth 6.2 -6.5
Marner is worth 7 - 7.5
Matthews is worth 9.0 - 9.5

John has proven he can do it year in year out, but honestly I dont think he is worth 11 mil. No player in the league is worth that. But I do think Kadri is better then Nylander.

Just throwing that out there.

McDavid is worth that and more.

 

[freer]

IMO

Nylander is worth 6.2 -6.5
Marner is worth 7 - 7.5
Matthews is worth 9.0 - 9.5

John has proven he can do it year in year out, but honestly I dont think he is worth 11 mil. No player in the league is worth that. But I do think Kadri is better then Nylander.

Just throwing that out there.

McDavid is worth that and more.

No player in the league is worth that much.