Contracts for the Big-3

[leafsjunkie]

This is truly, truly amazing since pretty much everyone accepts that Marner will get more than Nylander does even though they essentially have the same value.

Nah, I can't be on board with the last part of that opinion.

I'll bet if you gave all the other teams the choice of either in a trade, the majority would take Marner.

I am a Marner fanboy, but I'd bet more would choose Nylander if only because he can play Center- the much more valuable position.

As for their value.  Yes, their value today should be pretty much on par.  However, Marner has one more year to increase his value before signing his deal. 

And because he's signing one year later, with the cap probably going up, you can also state that Marner should get a smidge more money if they sign the same contract length.

Nylanders first year, where he played 22 games on that garbage team doesn't help.

Marner had the benefit of a better team, his first two seasons.

I like both players, but if I HAD to trade one (which I hope never happens), I would trade Marner.

 

[Kin]

I think they're different enough players that most teams would primarily be motivated by which guy is a better fit rather than a difference in value.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I think they're different enough players that most teams would primarily be motivated by which guy is a better fit rather than a difference in value.

Hence my point about Nylander playing C.  There are very few teams who are stacked enough at C to choose the pure winger.   

If the fit comes down to "intangibles" discussion or personality or nation of birth then I'm not going to theorize what different teams would do *cough many NHL GM's are stupid cough*

 

[Kin]

Hence my point about Nylander playing C.  There are very few teams who are stacked enough at C to choose the pure winger.

Maybe and I agree that Nylander's versatility makes him pretty valuable but I wonder that if a team is relatively set at C(say, in having 2 guys they like as much if not more than Nylander) then they wouldn't look at which winger they'd prefer if the plan would be to use Nylander there anyway.

But really what I personally meant by fit was just their play styles and how it might well with the other guys a team has.

 

[Frank E]

If the Nylander camp digs in their heels, and they're starting the season, what's the plan "B"...do you trade him or pay him?  Of course, I'm assuming that they're a fair distance apart here. 

I ask because I think that the Nylander deal is really setting the tone for negotiations with a few other pretty important pieces over the next year. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If the Nylander camp digs in their heels, and they're starting the season, what's the plan "B"...do you trade him or pay him?  Of course, I'm assuming that they're a fair distance apart here. 

I ask because I think that the Nylander deal is really setting the tone for negotiations with a few other pretty important pieces over the next year. 

I think worst case scenario here is that they settle on a 2 year contract. Sorta like Kucherov. He signed his 3 year, $4.766mil AAV deal days before Tampa's season started in 2016.

 

[jdh1]

Might as well trade Nylander for two 1st,s and save a protected spot for another player for the Seattle expansion.

 

[princedpw]

If the Nylander camp digs in their heels, and they're starting the season, what's the plan "B"...do you trade him or pay him?  Of course, I'm assuming that they're a fair distance apart here. 

I ask because I think that the Nylander deal is really setting the tone for negotiations with a few other pretty important pieces over the next year.

I think the leafs have so much firepower amongst their forwards that they can afford to be very patient and simply wait him out.

 

[Zee]

In my heart of hearts I believe the Nordic god will sign today.

 

[L K]

In my heart of hearts I believe the Nordic god will sign today.

If your heart is wrong, you are dead to me.

 

[rdowdall]

In my heart of hearts I believe the Nordic god will sign today.

If your heart is wrong, you are dead to me.

Someone needs to setup a twitter bot that just sends a message to Nylander every 5 minutes.

Did you sign yet?
...
...
Did you sign yet?
...
...
Did you sign yet?
...
...
Did you sign yet?


And on the other side, one that sends a message to Dubas every 5 mintues.

Did you sign Nylander yet?
...
...
Did you sign Nylander yet?
...
...
Did you sign Nylander yet?
...
...
Congrats on the promotion BTW.
...
...

That last one is because we aren't neanderthals.

 

[Zee]

In my heart of hearts I believe the Nordic god will sign today.

If your heart is wrong, you are dead to me.

When my heart is wrong, I check my gut, and that's never wrong.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/LeafsLunch1050/status/1039935131975344128

Dreger: this is literally meaningless information, but I'm going to provide it anyway

 

[Kin]

It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Coco-puffs]

https://twitter.com/LeafsLunch1050/status/1039935131975344128

Dreger: this is literally meaningless information, but I'm going to provide it anyway

Really, why wouldn't you ask for that?  This is a negotiation after all.  If you think you are worth 7 or 7.5M and you know the team is coming in at Ehlers/Pastrnak numbers (6M-6.6M), you'd probably start above 8M.

 

[Frank E]

Really, why wouldn't you ask for that?  This is a negotiation after all.  If you think you are worth 7 or 7.5M and you know the team is coming in at Ehlers/Pastrnak numbers (6M-6.6M), you'd probably start above 8M.

Well, in that case, why not ask for $10m?

As a guy that negotiates for a living, your goal in negotiations is to find some middle ground, and antagonizing the other party usually doesn't make things better.

The same could be said of the Leafs if they went in at $4.5m.

I doubt this Dregger thing is real, and I'm sure if there was an exorbitant ask, it was flushed away pretty quickly.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Really, why wouldn't you ask for that?  This is a negotiation after all.  If you think you are worth 7 or 7.5M and you know the team is coming in at Ehlers/Pastrnak numbers (6M-6.6M), you'd probably start above 8M.

Well, in that case, why not ask for $10m?

As a guy that negotiates for a living, your goal in negotiations is to find some middle ground, and antagonizing the other party usually doesn't make things better.

The same could be said of the Leafs if they went in at $4.5m.

I doubt this Dregger thing is real, and I'm sure if there was an exorbitant ask, it was flushed away pretty quickly.

Because an 8M ask isn't totally out of line if you feel you can compare yourself to Draisatl.  10M would be, as Nylander cannot bring a good enough case forward that he's equal to Eichel.

 

[Kin]

Well, in that case, why not ask for $10m?

As a guy that negotiates for a living, your goal in negotiations is to find some middle ground, and antagonizing the other party usually doesn't make things better.

Did you not read the post you're responding to? If Nylander is working on the assumption that he's worth 7 and the Leafs come in at 6 then how is 8 antagonistic?

 

[Frank E]

Well, in that case, why not ask for $10m?

As a guy that negotiates for a living, your goal in negotiations is to find some middle ground, and antagonizing the other party usually doesn't make things better.

Did you not read the post you're responding to? If Nylander is working on the assumption that he's worth 7 and the Leafs come in at 6 then how is 8 antagonistic?

Is that first part a rhetorical question, or are you actually asking me if I read the post?

The key word in the second part of your statement above is "If". 

And if Nylander feels he's worth $8m, then his ask was totally acceptable...to him.

I don't know who feels what in this negotiation, and I have zero information, but I stick by my statement that either party throwing out very high, or very low numbers usually doesn't help expedite negotiations.

 

[Kin]

The key word in the second part of your statement above is "If". 

Indeed and an especially eagle-eyed observer might have somehow sussed that was the entire working premise of the post you were responding to:

Really, why wouldn't you ask for that?  This is a negotiation after all.  If you think you are worth 7 or 7.5M and you know the team is coming in at Ehlers/Pastrnak numbers (6M-6.6M), you'd probably start above 8M.

So the answer to why 8 and not 10 is because in the hypothetical it is equidistant on Nylander's part and the team's part to what Nylander thinks the deal ultimately should be.

And if Nylander feels he's worth $8m, then his ask was totally acceptable...to him.

If he feels he's worth 8 and he asked for 8 then his ask wasn't just acceptable, it's leaving him no room to negotiate. I don't negotiate for a living but even I know you should probably start out a little higher than what you ultimately would agree to.

I don't know who feels what in this negotiation, and I have zero information, but I stick by my statement that either party throwing out very high, or very low numbers usually doesn't help expedite negotiations.

Then, again, one might infer that at issue is a disagreement about what constitutes a "very high" number in this case, rather than the assumption that the people negotiating Nylander's contract aren't quite as savvy as you think they should be.