Coronavirus

[Kin]

Going back to your earlier post, and in conjunction with this one: Do you disagree with arenas, theatres and places of worship going back to full capacity?  What are your thoughts on John Tory effectively telling employers to get their employees back in the office so the downtown core can see a resurgence?  All those outdoor festivals slated to come back -- right or wrong?  Indoor activities resuming full bore with any and all parents, siblings, friends and other family to attend?  Rules regarding visitors to hospitals and LTCs being loosened?

I've yet to hear a reasonable "exit strategy" where it lays everything out where we can say, "Okay, this is when we can and are to move on."

Those seem like a lot of different questions with a lot of different answers(Like with the John Tory one, it feels like that's a function of limited imagination where a Mayor in the pocket of Commercial real estate developers doesn't want to see how people working from home is A) potentially very good for them and their employers and B) a chance in a city with a massive housing crisis to repurpose some of the downtown for, you know, places where people can live) but I suppose the overarching answer to all of them sort of remains the same as what I tried to get across earlier wherein none of these things can really be seen in isolation but rather they all can(or could not) be good policies depending on the myriad other things you're doing re: the ongoing pandemic so you're mitigating spread and appreciating the realities of the situation. 

Like maybe those could all be good ideas if they're matched with maintaining mask mandates and Vaccination passports and paid sick leave and better funded health care and efforts to vaccinate people in poorer countries where new variants might pass up and likewise if we don't do any of those things, those policies will probably be less good.

It's kind of like grocery shopping, right? If you go to the grocery store there are two things you need to do: 1. Select and bring home lots of food for you to eat(this is good! humans need food!) and 2. Pay for your groceries(This is bad, I'd rather keep my money). Now, if you just go to the grocery store and get some food and leave without paying you haven't done 50% of a good job, you've committed a crime and made things worse for yourself.

Same here. If you only do the good, easy things(opening things up!) but without the hard, less fun things(being vigilant about keeping spread in check) you're not half-right. You're doing a lot of damage. I appreciate the desire for a concrete exit plan but I think that in the midst of maybe the worst pandemic humanity has seen in 100 years, we have to acknowledge that the situation is fluid and that an answer or end date emerging has nothing to do with when we want one to emerge.

 

[Peter D.]

Hey, if the main premise(s) of your argument(s) is that mask and vaccine passport mandates be kept in place, I have been and am in complete agreement.  I suggested earlier in this thread I'd rather have seen vaccine passports stay and was indifferent to masks and had no problem ditching them, but would have had no issues either if they were kept (which they should have been still for the foreseeable [post-March Break] future).

It certainly is a fluid situation, hence why I have no problems with things having opened up for the most part now that numbers have been coming down, vaccines are up and the better weather is upon us (not to say the weather suppresses the virus, but that more people are pushed outdoors where spread is not as prevalent).  And if need be that the fluid situation requires a slight retraction on things, now that metrics are creeping up again since the masks have come off, then if it's not too punitive where we go back to a lockdown state, it should be manageable. 

 

[Kin]

Hey, if the main premise(s) of your argument(s) is that mask and vaccine passport mandates be kept in place, I have been and am in complete agreement.  I suggested earlier in this thread I'd rather have seen vaccine passports stay and was indifferent to masks and had no problem ditching them, but would have had no issues either if they were kept (which they should have been still for the foreseeable [post-March Break] future).

I'd say the main thrust of my argument is more that none of these policies can be examined in isolation but instead have to be seen within the broader framework of the totality of the government's efforts regarding the disease. So even things I do approve of, like maintaining mask mandates and vaccine passports, are only good so long as we're also doing things that move us towards a return to normalcy like researching better covid treatments and the like. 

It certainly is a fluid situation, hence why I have no problems with things having opened up for the most part now that numbers have been coming down, vaccines are up and the better weather is upon us (not to say the weather suppresses the virus, but that more people are pushed outdoors where spread is not as prevalent).  And if need be that the fluid situation requires a slight retraction on things, now that metrics are creeping up again since the masks have come off, then if it's not too punitive where we go back to a lockdown state, it should be manageable.

I think my only issue there is that even the most rudimentary statistical modelling could have told us that if we opened up the way we did without any real attempts to maintain some mitigation we'd be back to numbers going up in a few weeks. Which seems to have the pattern with our provincial government throughout the pandemic, ignoring the modelling and looking to open things up ASAP without accepting the reality of what that means for spread. We are, as the saying goes, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[Deebo]

Those seem like a lot of different questions with a lot of different answers(Like with the John Tory one, it feels like that's a function of limited imagination where a Mayor in the pocket of Commercial real estate developers doesn't want to see how people working from home is A) potentially very good for them and their employers and B) a chance in a city with a massive housing crisis to repurpose some of the downtown for, you know, places where people can live)

Just want to agree with this point in particular. Forcing 1000s of people to spend hours a week commuting to serve corporate landlords is not something that should be lauded.

 

[Joe S.]

Those seem like a lot of different questions with a lot of different answers(Like with the John Tory one, it feels like that's a function of limited imagination where a Mayor in the pocket of Commercial real estate developers doesn't want to see how people working from home is A) potentially very good for them and their employers and B) a chance in a city with a massive housing crisis to repurpose some of the downtown for, you know, places where people can live)

Just want to agree with this point in particular. Forcing 1000s of people to spend hours a week commuting to serve corporate landlords is not something that should be lauded.

I can tell you that the banks are absolutely forcing people back into the office while saying things like ?employees are are #1 resource? we care about your health and well being?? and then saying ?we work better together and it?s time to return to work? hey assholes, we never stopped working.

I know of someone who was forced to go back to the office and day 1 they were all brought into a room for a ?town hall?. The entire department caught covid and most of them are home ill. But you know, gotta worry about those restaurants in the path.

 

[Deebo]

I can tell you that the banks are absolutely forcing people back into the office while saying things like ?employees are are #1 resource? we care about your health and well being?? and then saying ?we work better together and it?s time to return to work? hey assholes, we never stopped working.

I left the blue one during the pandemic, I couldn't be happier with my move.

 

[Bender]

Those seem like a lot of different questions with a lot of different answers(Like with the John Tory one, it feels like that's a function of limited imagination where a Mayor in the pocket of Commercial real estate developers doesn't want to see how people working from home is A) potentially very good for them and their employers and B) a chance in a city with a massive housing crisis to repurpose some of the downtown for, you know, places where people can live)

Just want to agree with this point in particular. Forcing 1000s of people to spend hours a week commuting to serve corporate landlords is not something that should be lauded.

I can tell you that the banks are absolutely forcing people back into the office while saying things like ?employees are are #1 resource? we care about your health and well being?? and then saying ?we work better together and it?s time to return to work? hey assholes, we never stopped working.

I know of someone who was forced to go back to the office and day 1 they were all brought into a room for a ?town hall?. The entire department caught covid and most of them are home ill. But you know, gotta worry about those restaurants in the path.

Can confirm. I'm in the same boat. They're doing a hybrid model right now but you know that's not going to last long before they mandate everyone back when it absolutely is not necessary.

 

[Joe S.]

God knows I need to take the go train for 45 mins ti get downtown so I can sit down on my cubicle to have conference calls all day. Efficiency!

 

[Bender]

God knows I need to take the go train for 45 mins ti get downtown so I can sit down on my cubicle to have conference calls all day. Efficiency!

I work directly with paperwork and apart from really specific things even that has transitioned to mostly electronic. I don't mind going back on my own terms, but being forced back (especially when my direct report doesn't care if I'm in the office or not) is really grating, especially considering a lot of people have been working hard this whole time and appreciative of this flexibility. It 100% to me is an attempt to justify their expense of office space, but it's just not as relevant anymore.

 

[Arn]

God knows I need to take the go train for 45 mins ti get downtown so I can sit down on my cubicle to have conference calls all day. Efficiency!

Last week I took a 4+ hour flight to an island off the coast of Morocco to attend an event.

The first day of the event consisted of 14 speakers on a certain topic in a dark, dingy hotel conference room.

Of the 14 speakers, only 4 of them were actually in the room. 10 of them presented via MS Teams online.

So I paid a small fortune (thankfully not of my own money, but still) and flew for 4+ hours to sit in a room with a load of people from a range of different countries to watch a load of videos on a screen.

Remember when we all learnt that things like that were a waste of time, effort and money and the working "paradigm" was going to shift post pandemic.

 

[Kin]

Last week I took a 4+ hour flight to an island off the coast of Morocco to attend an event.

The first day of the event consisted of 14 speakers on a certain topic in a dark, dingy hotel conference room.

Of the 14 speakers, only 4 of them were actually in the room. 10 of them presented via MS Teams online.

So I paid a small fortune (thankfully not of my own money, but still) and flew for 4+ hours to sit in a room with a load of people from a range of different countries to watch a load of videos on a screen.

Remember when we all learnt that things like that were a waste of time, effort and money and the working "paradigm" was going to shift post pandemic.

I don't know if you know it but stuff like this always reminds me of the joke of the EU looking to build a new bathroom at their headquarters. They get three bids. The first bid is from a German company.

"I will build the bathroom for 30,000 Euro" the German says

"30,000? Why so much?" the Bureaucrat says

"It will be built in the most contemporary German architectural styles with top level craftsmen" came the reply.

The second bid came from a French company who said they'd build it for 45,000 euro.

"Why so much?" asks the bureaucrat

"Well, it will be built in the most luxurious fashion with imported marble and gold fixtures" came the response.

Finally there was a bid from an Irish company. Their price tag was 70,000 Euro.

"70,000?" Asked the exasperated bureaucrat "How can it possibly cost so much?"

To which the Irishman replied:

"Well, I figure it's 20 grand for you, 20 grand for me and we get Fritz to build the damn thing."

 

[Arn]

Funny enough my trip was related to an EU funded project ;D

 

[Highlander]

Hey Bender,  How is your covid now?  I started with Faucet nose last Wednesday and today just completely no energy and still coughing a little.  Now my wife is really not happy with her bout.

 

[Joe S.]

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/04/06/covid-ontario-wastewater-cases-modelling/

Data suggests 100k daily cases in Ontario.

 

[Bender]

Hey Bender,  How is your covid now?  I started with Faucet nose last Wednesday and today just completely no energy and still coughing a little.  Now my wife is really not happy with her bout.

I was clear as of Monday morning, my girlfriend also caught it but she should be clear tomorrow. Sorry to hear you've still got a cough! I'm using my puffer for the time being.

*Edit: I should add for some context, I had almost no coughing symptoms that I could tell beyond what I thought was my asthma acting up and I went pretty much 2 weeks with symptoms. I didn't start obviously turning the corner until day 9 or 10.

 

[Bullfrog]

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/04/06/covid-ontario-wastewater-cases-modelling/

Data suggests 100k daily cases in Ontario.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid-19-sixth-wave-1.6408814

Yup.

 

[Highlander]

Hey Bender,  How is your covid now?  I started with Faucet nose last Wednesday and today just completely no energy and still coughing a little.  Now my wife is really not happy with her bout.

I was clear as of Monday morning, my girlfriend also caught it but she should be clear tomorrow. Sorry to hear you've still got a cough! I'm using my puffer for the time being.

*Edit: I should add for some context, I had almost no coughing symptoms that I could tell beyond what I thought was my asthma acting up and I went pretty much 2 weeks with symptoms. I didn't start obviously turning the corner until day 9 or 10.

I am into day 8 with symptoms, but started coughing this AM, my wife followed me by 1 day and lost her sense of smell yesterday.  Newspaper said the vaccines are not all that helpful against Omicron BA.2 which appears to be super contagious, everyone at the dinner party got it and my son after the fact.
I'd advise to keep wearing masks and avoid social situations for the time being.

 

[herman]

I hope everyone is feeling better

https://twitter.com/saramojtehedz/status/1513149264242880517
I?m guessing they were fans of the Hunger Games?

 

[Joe S.]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid19-april-11-2022-kieran-moore-briefing-1.6415524

For those of you old enough to remember, we?re in the Bagdad Bob phase of Ontario politics. Nothing to see here, everything is fine.

 

[Kin]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-covid19-april-11-2022-kieran-moore-briefing-1.6415524

For those of you old enough to remember, we?re in the Bagdad Bob phase of Ontario politics. Nothing to see here, everything is fine.

We're going to have 600+ people in the ICU and surgeries will be canceled again but no need to change anything.