Coronavirus
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Peter D.
Moderator
Nik said:
Thanks. Hope all went well.
My wife?s aunt and cousin went to get tested early on a few times in short succession simply because Ford suggested people go get tested so they could get the numbers up. Those at the testing centre gave a ?There?s really no reason for you to be here? type of retort. So I was curious in your case getting tested was of a similar mindset, or if perhaps you experienced varying cold like symptoms to have/want to go get tested multiple times in such a time frame.
Arn
Active member
So I debated whether to talk about this or not, but I think it's kind of important.
By no means do I not agree that we're in a virtually unprecedented time and dealing with a virus we knew nothing about and difficult decisions have had to be made. I agreed with the lockdown in the UK/Ireland and indeed even could have agreed with it happening sooner.
But now we know a bit more we need to be thinking about impacts on non-Coronavirus medical issues and the impacts they're having and if they're going to cause more issues than the virus itself.
So to give a personal example; a few months back we found out that my wife was pregnant with our second child. But cos of the way the hospitals were dealing with things we were informed of no scan until 20 weeks of the pregnancy.
IMPACT 1: we decided to pay for a private consultation and scan to get a due date and check everything was going ok and were a large chunk of ??? out of pocket. Thankfully we could afford it. Imagine you weren't so well off.
My wife struggled with morning sickness during her first pregnancy needing a few hospital admissions. Unfortunately this time round similar symptoms started to show. With us knowing this time what was going on we contacted the appropriate hospital department who actively discouraged her from coming in and suggested she ride it out at home. That night she was admitted for treatment through the ER.
Recovered well, but again a week or so later started to feel ill. Was advised to come in to maternity for treatment. I was not permitted to accompany her inside the hospital.
IMPACT 2: As part of the treatment they gave a scan at which point they couldn't find a heartbeat with the baby. Further investigation established that unfortunately we had lost it. My wife found this out on her own, with no support, and had to ring me to ask me to come into the hospital to meet her and tell me. This was a Friday.
We were then both given a covid test as she was informed that she would have to attend hospital for "surgery" the following Tuesday.
IMPACT 3: We then had to isolate at home with no going out and no visitors. No option to take our other son out to a park to play and distract ourselves. Just 4 days of sitting in the house stewing and thinking about what had happened.
IMPACT 4: On the Tuesday I was again not permitted into the hospital while my wife had to go through the ordeal of delivering a deceased child alone while I sat in my car in a local park. The first I knew she was ok was when she messaged me from the recovery suite about 4 hours after I'd left her off. I am still shook that she had to go through this particular part on her own and while we're both trying to show we're fine really I dunno how we'll ever deal with this bit in particular.
That's just one example. I know of people who have been unable to visit dying relatives in hospices and care homes. And I'm talking sons and daughters of the now deceased.
I know of people with their own mental issues who rely on interaction and things like their 2 or 3 trips to the gym to keep them from going to dark places.
The virus is obviously massively dangerous. But at what cost have we taken our eyes off these other issues?
By no means do I not agree that we're in a virtually unprecedented time and dealing with a virus we knew nothing about and difficult decisions have had to be made. I agreed with the lockdown in the UK/Ireland and indeed even could have agreed with it happening sooner.
But now we know a bit more we need to be thinking about impacts on non-Coronavirus medical issues and the impacts they're having and if they're going to cause more issues than the virus itself.
So to give a personal example; a few months back we found out that my wife was pregnant with our second child. But cos of the way the hospitals were dealing with things we were informed of no scan until 20 weeks of the pregnancy.
IMPACT 1: we decided to pay for a private consultation and scan to get a due date and check everything was going ok and were a large chunk of ??? out of pocket. Thankfully we could afford it. Imagine you weren't so well off.
My wife struggled with morning sickness during her first pregnancy needing a few hospital admissions. Unfortunately this time round similar symptoms started to show. With us knowing this time what was going on we contacted the appropriate hospital department who actively discouraged her from coming in and suggested she ride it out at home. That night she was admitted for treatment through the ER.
Recovered well, but again a week or so later started to feel ill. Was advised to come in to maternity for treatment. I was not permitted to accompany her inside the hospital.
IMPACT 2: As part of the treatment they gave a scan at which point they couldn't find a heartbeat with the baby. Further investigation established that unfortunately we had lost it. My wife found this out on her own, with no support, and had to ring me to ask me to come into the hospital to meet her and tell me. This was a Friday.
We were then both given a covid test as she was informed that she would have to attend hospital for "surgery" the following Tuesday.
IMPACT 3: We then had to isolate at home with no going out and no visitors. No option to take our other son out to a park to play and distract ourselves. Just 4 days of sitting in the house stewing and thinking about what had happened.
IMPACT 4: On the Tuesday I was again not permitted into the hospital while my wife had to go through the ordeal of delivering a deceased child alone while I sat in my car in a local park. The first I knew she was ok was when she messaged me from the recovery suite about 4 hours after I'd left her off. I am still shook that she had to go through this particular part on her own and while we're both trying to show we're fine really I dunno how we'll ever deal with this bit in particular.
That's just one example. I know of people who have been unable to visit dying relatives in hospices and care homes. And I'm talking sons and daughters of the now deceased.
I know of people with their own mental issues who rely on interaction and things like their 2 or 3 trips to the gym to keep them from going to dark places.
The virus is obviously massively dangerous. But at what cost have we taken our eyes off these other issues?
Guilt Trip
Active member
Sorry for your loss Arn and I totally get your point.
Arn said:
I'm sorry for your loss, Arn. I don't know why we can't chew gum and walk. For months now many virologists and epis have made the point of creating COVID only hospitals and non-covid hospitals where treatments and normal functions could still happen. Italy said this is what they should've done. Maybe there's a logistical issue or personnel issue with that but I haven't really even heard it discussed. I really don't get how we couldn't do that.
Kin
New member
Sorry to hear about your loss Arn. I hope you and your family are coping the best you can.
As to your question, I think it's a good one. All of this lockdown/quarantine stuff is going to have a big impact on people in ways we can't always see or predict and I think one of the things governments will have to do at some point is get a handle on all of the ramifications of their strategies and try to deal with them as best as they can.
I don't really know how we could ever measure if the additional effects of locking down/quarantining are greater than the virus itself. I'd like to think our public health officials take that into consideration when coming up with their plans but I don't know to what extent that's true. I guess I'd say that I think that not effectively isolating/quarantining would also have massive emotional impact on people. More death, more grief, more feeling unsafe for immunocompromised people. How to balance that is a real tough question.
But if you'll allow me a bit of a digression, a while back I said that Covid and our response to it didn't break our economy but rather exposed and highlighted the ways in which our economy was already broken. In a lot of ways I think that is also largely true with what you're saying. We didn't care enough about peoples emotional well-being. Mental health support systems were largely inadequate and underfunded. You talk about people who rely on interaction but I think with some exceptions, we all do. I must have read a dozen articles before the pandemic about the massive affect loneliness had on people's mental and physical health. And I'm talking about real scientific evidence kind of stuff.
The pandemic has no doubt exacerbated some of these things as there's increased demand for services and I hope it's a lesson that sticks with it. These things matter and they need to be addressed. Pre-Pandemic I feel like a politician running with a pledge to devote considerable public resources to a program to alleviate, say, loneliness or grief counselling or other mental health concerns probably would have been loudly mocked. I hope that's no longer the case.
I could go on another rant here about this is another example of the terrible damage that what modern capitalism is doing to us, about all of the good things we could have in society if so much wasn't devoted just to the cause of a small group of people accumulating as much wealth as they can, but I won't. Not because it's not true, it absolutely is, and the lack of mental/social services is an example of something we could do a lot better with if there wasn't a massive effort by very selfish people to convince others that decently funded government programs suck because there's no way to make a buck off it but, well, there you go.
As to your question, I think it's a good one. All of this lockdown/quarantine stuff is going to have a big impact on people in ways we can't always see or predict and I think one of the things governments will have to do at some point is get a handle on all of the ramifications of their strategies and try to deal with them as best as they can.
I don't really know how we could ever measure if the additional effects of locking down/quarantining are greater than the virus itself. I'd like to think our public health officials take that into consideration when coming up with their plans but I don't know to what extent that's true. I guess I'd say that I think that not effectively isolating/quarantining would also have massive emotional impact on people. More death, more grief, more feeling unsafe for immunocompromised people. How to balance that is a real tough question.
But if you'll allow me a bit of a digression, a while back I said that Covid and our response to it didn't break our economy but rather exposed and highlighted the ways in which our economy was already broken. In a lot of ways I think that is also largely true with what you're saying. We didn't care enough about peoples emotional well-being. Mental health support systems were largely inadequate and underfunded. You talk about people who rely on interaction but I think with some exceptions, we all do. I must have read a dozen articles before the pandemic about the massive affect loneliness had on people's mental and physical health. And I'm talking about real scientific evidence kind of stuff.
The pandemic has no doubt exacerbated some of these things as there's increased demand for services and I hope it's a lesson that sticks with it. These things matter and they need to be addressed. Pre-Pandemic I feel like a politician running with a pledge to devote considerable public resources to a program to alleviate, say, loneliness or grief counselling or other mental health concerns probably would have been loudly mocked. I hope that's no longer the case.
I could go on another rant here about this is another example of the terrible damage that what modern capitalism is doing to us, about all of the good things we could have in society if so much wasn't devoted just to the cause of a small group of people accumulating as much wealth as they can, but I won't. Not because it's not true, it absolutely is, and the lack of mental/social services is an example of something we could do a lot better with if there wasn't a massive effort by very selfish people to convince others that decently funded government programs suck because there's no way to make a buck off it but, well, there you go.
Arn
Active member
Thanks guys, appreciate all the thoughts. That's actually the first I've really talked about or acknowledged it happening so even that has helped a little.
Look, we'll be fine. We're lucky, we've got good strong supportive families and friends, employers have been great and done everything they can to help.
It just really had me thinking about those less fortunate who don't have that kind of support or access and I know it's hard to get the balance between protecting from the virus but not going too far.
I get a lot of what you're saying as well Nik, we even saw it early on where you had nations/governments/whatever using financial muscle to buy up bulk amounts of personal protective equipment without really knowing how much they'd need and hijacking deliveries destined for other nations by offering more cash at the last possible second.
Look, we'll be fine. We're lucky, we've got good strong supportive families and friends, employers have been great and done everything they can to help.
It just really had me thinking about those less fortunate who don't have that kind of support or access and I know it's hard to get the balance between protecting from the virus but not going too far.
I get a lot of what you're saying as well Nik, we even saw it early on where you had nations/governments/whatever using financial muscle to buy up bulk amounts of personal protective equipment without really knowing how much they'd need and hijacking deliveries destined for other nations by offering more cash at the last possible second.
Really sorry about what happened Arn. Glad you guys have been able to stay strong through everything.
Bullfrog
Active member
To your point Arn, With the suffering that's occurred, I hope -- perhaps optimistically -- that more people will see the need for a compassionate government.
A few weeks ago, I was at my grandfather's bedside as he passed away. Only one person was allowed in his room at a time. It was heart-wrenching for the family to have to wait outside the building as we tagged off on visitors. I know the measures are also there to protect the residents, I don't see why an exception for a man who was clearly about to die couldn't have been made.
A few weeks ago, I was at my grandfather's bedside as he passed away. Only one person was allowed in his room at a time. It was heart-wrenching for the family to have to wait outside the building as we tagged off on visitors. I know the measures are also there to protect the residents, I don't see why an exception for a man who was clearly about to die couldn't have been made.
Highlander
Active member
Arn, so sorry for your loss, I have been there and it is a very hard place to be.