Ducks shopping Ryan

[Bullfrog]

Anyways, I've soured on Schenn quite a bit.  He's a decent d-man.  He can hit and block shots and that's about it.  I actually see his skill set as being pretty darn similar to Komisarek.  You know, slow skater, big, hit, block shots, can't pass, can't shoot, runs around own end.  Schenn's career looks right on track.

I forgot that guy was even on the team.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

Anyways, I've soured on Schenn quite a bit.  He's a decent d-man.  He can hit and block shots and that's about it.  I actually see his skill set as being pretty darn similar to Komisarek.  You know, slow skater, big, hit, block shots, can't pass, can't shoot, runs around own end.  Schenn's career looks right on track.

I forgot that guy was even on the team.

Seems to be the trend with Burke's UFA signings.

 

[Madferret]

Schenn & Kulemin for Ryan?! And some of you wouldn't pull that trigger?! Come on!!

 

[Mack674]

Schenn & Kulemin for Ryan?! And some of you wouldn't pull that trigger?! Come on!!

I would, instantly.

 

[Corn Flake]

Right now a package starting with Schenn as a main piece I would be very willing to see put together for Ryan. 

I like Schenn but I'm starting to question the ceiling he has. Its not to say I give up on the guy at all.. just not sure he's as good as we think he's going to be.  Seen a lot of flaws lately that concern me.   Anyway, he's simply not untouchable anymore in my books.  Plus, Cody Franson being around makes it easier to move Schenn.

You know what...  And this may be something for another thread but I agree with you.

I've noticed things I really don't like either that concern my quite a bit.  For one, he's always 'next to a guy' in the crease.  He never takes someone out.  He never ties up there stick.  My friend at work told me to watch out for this and it's incredible.  The guy literally stands next to forwards instead of trying something to take them out.  They get to all the loose pucks and jam away in the crease.

He also has spaghetti arms.  Terrible, weak first pass.  Often right on the offensive guys stick.  He also has no shot.  Nothing.  He sits there and waits, and waits, and waits, and is so slow to get off a slapper.  Not to mention it's virtually non-existent, which is surprising for a guy his size and strength.

He also runs around his own end like a chicken with no head.

Anyways, I've soured on Schenn quite a bit.  He's a decent d-man.  He can hit and block shots and that's about it.  I actually see his skill set as being pretty darn similar to Komisarek.  You know, slow skater, big, hit, block shots, can't pass, can't shoot, runs around own end.  Schenn's career looks right on track.

I don't think its quite that bad with Schenn, but I do agree with a number of your points. 

My bigger problem with his crease work is his choices of when to leave his position and try to pick up the puck. on the PK he has been BRUTAL at this lately. Its a big reason why the PK has suffered.  The first PP goal by Buffalo on Friday exemplifies this. He goes chasing pucks and leaves his side of the net wide open, often Gardiner on his own to try and deal with two forwards coming at it.  Opposing teams see this and they take advantage.

What bugs me about his passes and shot is they are really deliberate at times and easily anticipated as to what he's going to do.  He wouldn't be more obvious as to his intentions if each time he yelled out, "MY NAME IS LUKE SCHENN AND I AM ABOUT TO PASS THE PUCK OVER THERE."

Zanzibar mentioned the one example where he can force an opponent off the puck behind the net (his board work is usually quite good) but then does something terrible with the puck from there.  You can see he's trying to follow what the coaches have told him to do but its just his good decisions of which option to use seem to come and go.

He's still young and will go for long stretches playing very well, and there is lots of time to work things out, but this is his 4th pro season and by now he shouldn't have these waves of up and down play.  I'm sure he will get better with age, but how long it takes and how high the ceiling is, is what I question.

Bottom line, I don't think it cripples this team long-term if they traded him, not with Franson in the fold, Komisarek coming back soon and a stack of good young d-men in the system. 

 

[Peter D.]

I was going to start a thread a little while ago asking whether or not Schenn was still untouchable.  Decided not to.  But to me, I'd play the Schenn "chip" in a heartbeat.  We've heard Burke state in years past that teams would call him up and the first person they'd ask for was Schenn and he'd basically hang up since he was the future.  That's no longer the case.

I'd trade Schenn ++ for Ryan in a heartbeat.  I am still shocked there were those in the summer who said they wouldn't include him in a deal for Stamkos.  Schenn, as a defensive defenceman, is easily replaceable.  Better yet, young, power forwards like Ryan are much harder to find.  We have Aulie waiting in the wings who could replace Schenn, and he'd bring some offensive flair as well. 

ErnDog alluded to numerous characteristics about Schenn I'm not fond of.  For one, his shot is pathetic.  For a big boy like that he shoots like a wimp -- I'm thinking poor man's Shea Weber (in what he could become).  Another big flaw is his skating.  He is slow on the pivot and gets beaten way too easily.  He's not overly physical (ie. in front of the net).  He can barely pass, nor can he rush the puck out of the zone. 

I know teams need Adam Foote-like d-men to win championships, who Schenn is often compared to.  But if I'm Burke, I'm trying to get Ryan at practically an all-time low and using Schenn to do it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I was going to start a thread a little while ago asking whether or not Schenn was still untouchable.  Decided not to.  But to me, I'd play the Schenn "chip" in a heartbeat.  We've heard Burke state in years past that teams would call him up and the first person they'd ask for was Schenn and he'd basically hang up since he was the future.  That's no longer the case.

I'd trade Schenn ++ for Ryan in a heartbeat.  I am still shocked there were those in the summer who said they wouldn't include him in a deal for Stamkos.  Schenn, as a defensive defenceman, is easily replaceable.  Better yet, young, power forwards like Ryan are much harder to find.  We have Aulie waiting in the wings who could replace Schenn, and he'd bring some offensive flair as well. 

ErnDog alluded to numerous characteristics about Schenn I'm not fond of.  For one, his shot is pathetic.  For a big boy like that he shoots like a wimp -- I'm thinking poor man's Shea Weber.  Another big flaw is his skating.  He is slow on the pivot and gets beaten way too easily.  He's not overly physical (ie. in front of the net).  He can barely pass, nor can he rush the puck out of the zone. 

I know teams need Adam Foote-like d-men to win championships, who Schenn is often compared to.  But if I'm Burke, I'm trying to get Ryan at practically an all-time low and using Schenn to do it.

With glowing praise like that, who wouldn't trade their star players for Schenn?

 

[Peter D.]

With glowing praise like that, who wouldn't trade their star players for Schenn?

Just because we as fans and perhaps even management aren't fond of a player doesn't mean other teams view the same. 

I know there are some Ducks' fans discussing, as we are, the flaws of Ryan and that maybe it's time to move him.  Many of our thoughts on him show the exact flip side ("If that's the case, why would we want to trade for Ryan?") to the point you made.

 

[Erndog]

I was going to start a thread a little while ago asking whether or not Schenn was still untouchable.  Decided not to.  But to me, I'd play the Schenn "chip" in a heartbeat.  We've heard Burke state in years past that teams would call him up and the first person they'd ask for was Schenn and he'd basically hang up since he was the future.  That's no longer the case.

I'd trade Schenn ++ for Ryan in a heartbeat.  I am still shocked there were those in the summer who said they wouldn't include him in a deal for Stamkos.  Schenn, as a defensive defenceman, is easily replaceable.  Better yet, young, power forwards like Ryan are much harder to find.  We have Aulie waiting in the wings who could replace Schenn, and he'd bring some offensive flair as well. 

ErnDog alluded to numerous characteristics about Schenn I'm not fond of.  For one, his shot is pathetic.  For a big boy like that he shoots like a wimp -- I'm thinking poor man's Shea Weber.  Another big flaw is his skating.  He is slow on the pivot and gets beaten way too easily.  He's not overly physical (ie. in front of the net).  He can barely pass, nor can he rush the puck out of the zone. 

I know teams need Adam Foote-like d-men to win championships, who Schenn is often compared to.  But if I'm Burke, I'm trying to get Ryan at practically an all-time low and using Schenn to do it.

With glowing praise like that, who wouldn't trade their star players for Schenn?

I think the difference is a lot of us are on to Schenn while a lot of GM's and fans around the league haven't quite noticed his suckitude yet.  Delayed reaction if you will.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

With glowing praise like that, who wouldn't trade their star players for Schenn?

Just because we as fans and perhaps even management aren't fond of a player doesn't mean other teams view the same. 

I know there are some Ducks' fans discussing, as we are, the flaws of Ryan and that maybe it's time to move him.  Many of our thoughts on him show the exact flip side ("If that's the case, why would we want to trade for Ryan?") to the point you made.

This is more than just discussing the flaws of Schenn.  You would basically ripped his skating, shot, physical play, defensive coverage, and passing ability.  As a defense-first defenceman, what is left?  And then why would a team trade an established star like Ryan for a defenceman who has yet to put it all together and who you consider to have that many flaws?

NHL teams would have even more scouts breaking down Schenn if they were going to trade for him, more than we can even see on TV.

I think teams can overvalue players or undervalue players, but when it comes to trading established stars who haven't shown a long period of decline, then if a GM was going to seriously consider trading Ryan for a package including Schenn, I think we'd have to give up a heck of a lot more.  If you are seeing these widespread flaws, then the other GM is, too.  Either that or your ability to judge a player is seriously flawed.    But like you said, if Schenn is much easier replaced than a Ryan is, I still don't see Schenn being the big piece that gets you Ryan.

But hey, stranger things have happened.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I was going to start a thread a little while ago asking whether or not Schenn was still untouchable.  Decided not to.  But to me, I'd play the Schenn "chip" in a heartbeat.  We've heard Burke state in years past that teams would call him up and the first person they'd ask for was Schenn and he'd basically hang up since he was the future.  That's no longer the case.

I'd trade Schenn ++ for Ryan in a heartbeat.  I am still shocked there were those in the summer who said they wouldn't include him in a deal for Stamkos.  Schenn, as a defensive defenceman, is easily replaceable.  Better yet, young, power forwards like Ryan are much harder to find.  We have Aulie waiting in the wings who could replace Schenn, and he'd bring some offensive flair as well. 

ErnDog alluded to numerous characteristics about Schenn I'm not fond of.  For one, his shot is pathetic.  For a big boy like that he shoots like a wimp -- I'm thinking poor man's Shea Weber.  Another big flaw is his skating.  He is slow on the pivot and gets beaten way too easily.  He's not overly physical (ie. in front of the net).  He can barely pass, nor can he rush the puck out of the zone. 

I know teams need Adam Foote-like d-men to win championships, who Schenn is often compared to.  But if I'm Burke, I'm trying to get Ryan at practically an all-time low and using Schenn to do it.

With glowing praise like that, who wouldn't trade their star players for Schenn?

I think the difference is a lot of us are on to Schenn while a lot of GM's and fans around the league haven't quite noticed his suckitude yet.  Delayed reaction if you will.

I highly doubt a GM is going to deal a star like Ryan without thoroughly doing their homework on who they are going to get in return.

Either they are going to see what the fans see, or the fans are way over-reacting.  That's what scouts are paid for anyways.

 

[Corn Flake]

We digress on the thread topic, but....

To me it comes down to Schenn vs. Franson.  I think Cody's arrival (not to mention Gardiner) soften the untouchable stance on Schenn.  When Burke was hollering about not trading him, he didn't have either of those two other guys in the fold. 

If I'm choosing whether to hold one of Schenn or Franson long term I think I lean toward Franson at this point. 

I see about the same number of mistakes in the Leafs zone from both.  Gaffe-wise Franson seems to have suffered the consequences a bit more than Schenn at this point but its starting to balance out as Cody gets more opportunities, and is now playing on his natural right side (was on his off-side to start the year and had serious trouble with it).  Schenn is more physical but Franson has the better stick around the net and far better at getting the puck out of the zone with a quick pass and not near an attacker. Franson won't use his size all the time, but at times he does and as Stamkos found out not long ago, he's a very strong kid who will throw guys down.

Offensively there is no comparison. Franson has tonnes of offensive upside and one of the best point shots I've seen in a while in terms of getting it off quick and getting it through traffic. 

If Schenn still has super high value on the trade market, I would definitely be exploring what I can get as far as top-end offensive talent for him in a package.  Its not really about giving up on Schenn, its about using the assets you have and where you can sacrifice to help another part of your team.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

We digress on the thread topic, but....

To me it comes down to Schenn vs. Franson.  I think Cody's arrival (not to mention Gardiner) soften the untouchable stance on Schenn.  When Burke was hollering about not trading him, he didn't have either of those two other guys in the fold. 

If I'm choosing whether to hold one of Schenn or Franson long term I think I lean toward Franson at this point. 

I see about the same number of mistakes in the Leafs zone from both.  Gaffe-wise Franson seems to have suffered the consequences a bit more than Schenn at this point but its starting to balance out as Cody gets more opportunities, and is now playing on his natural right side (was on his off-side to start the year and had serious trouble with it).  Schenn is more physical but Franson has the better stick around the net and far better at getting the puck out of the zone with a quick pass and not near an attacker. Franson won't use his size all the time, but at times he does and as Stamkos found out not long ago, he's a very strong kid who will throw guys down.

Offensively there is no comparison. Franson has tonnes of offensive upside and one of the best point shots I've seen in a while in terms of getting it off quick and getting it through traffic. 

If Schenn still has super high value on the trade market, I would definitely be exploring what I can get as far as top-end offensive talent for him in a package.  Its not really about giving up on Schenn, its about using the assets you have and where you can sacrifice to help another part of your team.

I think I'd agree with all of this.  I skimmed some though, just so you know.  Seemed to be flowing down the same river, though.

 

[Peter D.]

This is more than just discussing the flaws of Schenn.  You would basically ripped his skating, shot, physical play, defensive coverage, and passing ability.  As a defense-first defenceman, what is left?  And then why would a team trade an established star like Ryan for a defenceman who has yet to put it all together and who you consider to have that many flaws?

NHL teams would have even more scouts breaking down Schenn if they were going to trade for him, more than we can even see on TV.

I think teams can overvalue players or undervalue players, but when it comes to trading established stars who haven't shown a long period of decline, then if a GM was going to seriously consider trading Ryan for a package including Schenn, I think we'd have to give up a heck of a lot more.  If you are seeing these widespread flaws, then the other GM is, too.  Either that or your ability to judge a player is seriously flawed.    But like you said, if Schenn is much easier replaced than a Ryan is, I still don't see Schenn being the big piece that gets you Ryan.

But hey, stranger things have happened.

For one, I said I'd give up Schenn ++ for Ryan.  I know we don't get him without giving up more.  And there were at least three others preceeding me suggesting similar flaws in (ripping apart) Schenn's game and that they'd trade him in a deal for Ryan.  Heck, Zanzibar brought up Staal.

I don't really see why all this talk is ludicrous.  Schenn has value.  I bet there are numerous teams who would love to have a d-man in his mold, flaws and all.  But for our team, and Corn Flake did a good job of detailing it, there are other options available to the team now that weren't there before. 

He is no longer the untouchable cornerstone that he was pegged to be.  To me at least. 

 

[Tigger]

Aulie would bring offensive flair? That might be the funniest thing I've read today.

Schenn is turning into a 21 year old goat, good for him, it was his turn anyways.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Aulie would bring offensive flair? That might be the funniest thing I've read today.

Schenn is turning into a 21 year old goat, good for him, it was his turn anyways.

Aulie??  I thought they were talking about Franson.

 

[Tigger]

Schenn, as a defensive defenceman, is easily replaceable.  Better yet, young, power forwards like Ryan are much harder to find. We have Aulie waiting in the wings who could replace Schenn, and he'd bring some offensive flair as well.

 

[Newbury]

What the hell happened with the attitudes on Schenn? Am I the only one who still thinks he's a good young defenseman?

 

[Madferret]

What the hell happened with the attitudes on Schenn? Am I the only one who still thinks he's a good young defenseman?

New car smell is gone. Get rid of him!

 

[Redleaf]

What the hell happened with the attitudes on Schenn? Am I the only one who still thinks he's a good young defenseman?

If he were 26 or 27 I'd side with the nay sayers, but at 22, I say be patient!!