Falling Leafs

[Zee]

The upper management can talk about compete level all they want, but the firing of the assistants and the talk about the "swarm" defense not working leads me to believe they'll abandon Carlyle's old coaching philosophy.  I fully expect the Leafs to attempt to play a more possession style game, which would lead to not getting widely outshot every game.  If they're able to make that transition, the results should get better, and all of a sudden "compete" isn't an issue.

Or it could be that the firing of the assistants leaves Carlyle in a position to dictate the style of play, so it could be more of the same stupid style.  If the Leafs start the season as how they finished last  season I cannot see how they make the playoffs regardless when they stop playing the 'collapse in front of the net' style or the 'spend 2 minutes chasing the other team with the puck' style.  3 points in 20 games will not do it for the Leafs or any other team for that matter - they would have to win 45 of the remaining 60 games just to have a shot.

What I would like to see is the Leafs play a more agressive style of play that makes it difficult for other teams to access the Leafs defensive zone, to minimize scoring chances for other teams, that allows for a quick transition from defense to offence and yes, less SOG. 

Sure, but as others have suggested, I'm in the camp that thinks Carlyle is on a short leash despite his contract extension.  If the Leafs stumble out of the gate and it's the same old problems that we've seen under Carlyle, he'll be fired before Christmas.  If he insists on his style of play and it's failing horribly, so long Randy.  We've seen other teams make in-season coaching changes that have turned teams around..look no further than the Flyers last year.

 

[Redleaf]

You know, this may sound overly dramatic, but I really feel this way...

I'd forgo this entire season if it meant for sure we'd draft McDavid next year. Of course there is no guarantee that would happen, but that's what I'd be willing to do. No Leafs for a year to see them do what they absolutely must do to get out of this 'no mans land' they find themselves in right now.

Let's hope they take a step forward and make the playoffs, or take two steps back and draft the 1st overall.

 

[Zee]

You know, this may sound overly dramatic, but I really feel this way...

I'd forgo this entire season if it meant for sure we'd draft McDavid next year. Of course there is no guarantee that would happen, but that's what I'd be willing to do. No Leafs for a year to see them do what they absolutely must do to get out of this 'no mans land' they find themselves in right now.

Let's hope they take a step forward and make the playoffs, or take two steps back and draft the 1st overall.

Getting McDavid would be worth a disastrous season, but like you said there are no guarantees you get him.  I've lived through so many non playoff years what's one more if it means a generational talent on the roster. 

If Pittsburgh somehow gets him, I'll scream.

 

[showmethemoneyman]

since we had tentatively traded Franson for Gorges
that fell thru and he went to Buffalo for a second instead
no problem
we just trade franson to montreal for buffalo's second
works for me

 

[mr grieves]

The Leafs certainly weren't as bad as their final 15 or so games were played. However, I agree in principle with what Busta is saying, it indeed does always even out and I think where the Leafs ended up is where they should have based on their total body of work last season.

And I think that's all the advanced stats people were predicting: things will even out, and they'll find themselves at their level. Those who say "well, they were a playoff team until the last 6 weeks" or "you couldn't have predicted such a horrible stretch of games" are missing the point.

 

[KW Sluggo]

Add MacIntyre.

That is the last straw, we cannot even keep the guy who is supposed to be the back up when we trade Reimer.

WTF

MacIntyre's an AHL goalie and always will be. Relax.

So he's no Joey MacDonald?

At $600K on a 2 way he would be adequate is a back up and he would free up about $1.5M ib cap space.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

At $600K on a 2 way he would be adequate is a back up and he would free up about $1.5M ib cap space.

Even the team that signed him has no intention of playing him in the NHL. You can't have AHL-caliber back-ups in this day and age.

 

[bustaheims]

Even the team that signed him has no intention of playing him in the NHL. You can't have AHL-caliber back-ups in this day and age.

Especially when your starter's has never started more than 49 games in one season - and that they only time he's started more than 22. The Leafs need a guy who could conceivably start 30 games next season, and MacIntyre is not that guy.

 

[KW Sluggo]

At $600K on a 2 way he would be adequate is a back up and he would free up about $1.5M ib cap space.

Even the team that signed him has no intention of playing him in the NHL. You can't have AHL-caliber back-ups in this day and age.

I suppose not, best to stick with the Raycrofts, Toskalas etc who have proven their worth.

 

[bustaheims]

I suppose not, best to stick with the Raycrofts, Toskalas etc who have proven their worth.

Sure. Because, clearly, the only options are 30 year old goalies who have barely played any NHL games and guys who are on the verge of flaming out. There's definitely no other options. :

 

[KW Sluggo]

Even the team that signed him has no intention of playing him in the NHL. You can't have AHL-caliber back-ups in this day and age.

Especially when your starter's has never started more than 49 games in one season - and that they only time he's started more than 22. The Leafs need a guy who could conceivably start 30 games next season, and MacIntyre is not that guy.

If our back-up is expected to start 30 games, even conceivably, something will have gone very, very wrong or else we will be tanking.

Ideally I would want to keep Reimer but he has a career to think about and I don't blame him for wanting a trade.

 

[bustaheims]

If our back-up is expected to start 30 games, even conceivably, something will have gone very, very wrong or else we will be tanking.

Ideally I would want to keep Reimer but he has a career to think about and I don't blame him for wanting a trade.

The Leafs current starting goalie has never started 50 games in a season and is recovering from a groin issue. He's not suddenly going to be a guy who starts 70. 30 may be on the high side of what the backup will play this season, but the Leafs need a guy who can handle that kind of workload. They can't have a guy who only plays once every 2 weeks. It's not a matter of something going wrong. It's just the reality of the current situation. Until Bernier can prove he can stay healthy and start 65 games in a season, the Leafs are going to need a safety net.

 

[KW Sluggo]

I suppose not, best to stick with the Raycrofts, Toskalas etc who have proven their worth.

Sure. Because, clearly, the only options are 30 year old goalies who have barely played any NHL games and guys who are on the verge of flaming out. There's definitely no other options. :

Strange dichotomy you frame there - not so long ago it was no criticism of Raycroft, after all he was a Calder winner.

Of course you either miss my point or try to obscure and distract: the fact is that securing so called experience NHL goalies to be a Leaf goalie is something we have tried and tried and tried. Maybe, just maybe you can do it with a starter (Cujo and Belfour come to mind) but any decent goalie (Reimer for example) will want to start and beyond that Joey MacDonald and Scott Clemmenson are your choices and saying they are markedly better than MacIntyre or that either one could "conceivably" give us 30 games is dreaming.

Oh BTW, neither Clemmer nor Joey Mac are available any longer so the search will start further down the quality goalie list and will cost a lot more. But what the hell, we are a cap team. We spend to the cap to field a non playoff team so why not start with the back-up goalie.

 

[KW Sluggo]

If our back-up is expected to start 30 games, even conceivably, something will have gone very, very wrong or else we will be tanking.

Ideally I would want to keep Reimer but he has a career to think about and I don't blame him for wanting a trade.

The Leafs current starting goalie has never started 50 games in a season and is recovering from a groin issue. He's not suddenly going to be a guy who starts 70. 30 may be on the high side of what the backup will play this season, but the Leafs need a guy who can handle that kind of workload. They can't have a guy who only plays once every 2 weeks. It's not a matter of something going wrong. It's just the reality of the current situation. Until Bernier can prove he can stay healthy and start 65 games in a season, the Leafs are going to need a safety net.

If you seriously believe that then we have the back-up goalie, what we need is the starter.

 

[rdowdall]

If our back-up is expected to start 30 games, even conceivably, something will have gone very, very wrong or else we will be tanking.

Ideally I would want to keep Reimer but he has a career to think about and I don't blame him for wanting a trade.

The Leafs current starting goalie has never started 50 games in a season and is recovering from a groin issue. He's not suddenly going to be a guy who starts 70. 30 may be on the high side of what the backup will play this season, but the Leafs need a guy who can handle that kind of workload. They can't have a guy who only plays once every 2 weeks. It's not a matter of something going wrong. It's just the reality of the current situation. Until Bernier can prove he can stay healthy and start 65 games in a season, the Leafs are going to need a safety net.

If you seriously believe that then we have the back-up goalie, what we need is the starter.

I fail to see how the Leafs situation is any different than Dallas's with Kari Lehtonen.  He only plays 55 to 65 games a year, and he's considered a #1. 

 

[bustaheims]

I fail to see how the Leafs situation is any different than Dallas's with Kari Lehtonen.  He only plays 55 to 65 games a year, and he's considered a #1.

Never mind that - it's just the reality of having a young goalie who hasn't shown he can handle the workload of a starting goalie yet. You can't go into a season with a starter like that and not have a safety net. Until he shows he can handle a 65+ start season, you have to build your roster as if he can't.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I fail to see how the Leafs situation is any different than Dallas's with Kari Lehtonen.  He only plays 55 to 65 games a year, and he's considered a #1.

Never mind that - it's just the reality of having a young goalie who hasn't shown he can handle the workload of a starting goalie yet. You can't go into a season with a starter like that and not have a safety net. Until he shows he can handle a 65+ start season, you have to build your roster as if he can't.

Yup and put the ball firmly in Reimer's court. Play like a starter and steal the job, or play like a starter and get us the trade we need to move you. Either way, having both these guys here is a benefit for the Leafs.

 

[Mike1]

I feel like we are all just waiting for the inevitable shoe to drop. Nonis & Carlyle have proven their lack of quality & their lack of understanding of the teams problems. Honestly guys I wasn't looking forward to free agency because I have no confidence in this regime. These guys have made so many dumb moves I cringe every time I hear the Leafs have done something. Gunnarson for Polak is just another one in a long line up of bad trades this regime has made.

As far as leadership, culture & compete level go. I'm just tired of hearing these lame narratives over & over again by these guys. If leadership is a problem, it's the leadership in management/coaching. The sooner Shanahan realizes that & gets rid of these clowns, the better off the Leafs organization will be.

 

[lamajama]

We'll never be in the McDavid sweeps where we actually have a better than decent chance so I say fire the tool now and bring in anyone else. Anyone..

 

[moon111]

When I think of my favourite Leaf players, compete level is probably the #1 way I would rank them.  Last year was brutal to watch.