Game 33: Kings at Leafs - Dec 19th 7pm SNETO (OTL3-2)

[Hank Yarbo]

42 shots against versus an offensively struggling team suggests our defensive system is berift of any merit.

 

[Zee]

Wilson is Burke's 1st star so far this season.

If I were Wilson and there's a deal on the table, I'd grab a pen pretty darn quick.

The Leafs come from behind to tie against a team with a string of whatever going into the third, gut out a point, dominate in ot and you want to write off the coach?

Get a grip.

I guess you've missed the whole 9 wins in the last 23 games thing?

You really think that's entirely a result of coaching? It should apply to this game?

I guess I can never blame coaching for anything. 9 wins in 23 games? Downward trend. 40+ shots against offensively challenged team? Just a fluke. 3 straight losses and 30th best PK? Bad luck.

Why even have a coach? We can blame poor play on so many other things.

 

[nutman]

You got to remember that the 2 goals that LA got should not have happened.  One was a shoot in that was going around the glass, hit the stanchion, and came right in front to where a loan LA forward was.  Try that one thousand times and it might happen once.  The other was a goal on a missed offside call.

At least the Leafs got 1 point out of it.

I agree with you but would like to add 0ne thing,  Wilson needs to find a way to modvate the players, or we will continue to see the 1st period crap we have been seeing lately. they need to come out hungry and i have not seen that in a while.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

42 shots against versus an offensively struggling team suggests our defensive system is berift of any merit.

Boston gives up the 2nd most shots per game in the league, and are widely considered defensively sound.

 

[Zee]

42 shots against versus an offensively struggling team suggests our defensive system is berift of any merit.

Boston gives up the 2nd most shots per game in the league, and are widely considered defensively sound.

I guess it's ok then, carry on.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Wilson is Burke's 1st star so far this season.

If I were Wilson and there's a deal on the table, I'd grab a pen pretty darn quick.

The Leafs come from behind to tie against a team with a string of whatever going into the third, gut out a point, dominate in ot and you want to write off the coach?

Get a grip.

A grip?? The Leafs were playing a team in the crapper worse than we are. These are the games a *good* team takes advantage of.  The Leafs are having their November swoon (that cost us the playoffs) in December.

Good teams gut out a point, the Leafs did that. Can I offer you a 'sky is falling' piece of pie/cake for your fried chicken? Be glad for small victories man, expectation should be tempered somewhat one would think.

I mean, unless you have unrealistic expectations or whatnot.

Bad teams lose to even worse teams.  On paper and by urgency, the Leafs should have won this game.  Getting one point may help in the standings, but it just proves that this team is not very good, and it is the good teams destroy the bad ones.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

42 shots against versus an offensively struggling team suggests our defensive system is berift of any merit.

Boston gives up the 2nd most shots per game in the league, and are widely considered defensively sound.

I guess it's ok then, carry on.

More like giving up a lot of shots is not necessarily an indication of anything.  The season the Leafs finished 2nd last in the league, they were top 5 in the NHL in shots.  No, it didn't mean they were slashing through opposing teams defences - they were 26th in goals per game.

I'm just saying you can't just look and say 40 shots against is proof of the poor defence.  It's quality of scoring chances, and last night I would say they were about even.  I fell into the shots/game trap in 09-10.

 

[Zee]

42 shots against versus an offensively struggling team suggests our defensive system is berift of any merit.

Boston gives up the 2nd most shots per game in the league, and are widely considered defensively sound.

I guess it's ok then, carry on.

More like giving up a lot of shots is not necessarily an indication of anything.  The season the Leafs finished 2nd last in the league, they were top 5 in the NHL in shots.  No, it didn't mean they were slashing through opposing teams defences - they were 26th in goals per game.

I'm just saying you can't just look and say 40 shots against is proof of the poor defence.  It's quality of scoring chances, and last night I would say they were about even.  I fell into the shots/game trap in 09-10.

What Optimus said above your post, no need to repeat it.  Urgency etc.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

the good teams destroy the bad ones.

Except that it is never that simple.  In the last week - Isles have beat Minny, Ottawa has beat Pittsburgh, Carolina and Columbus have beat Vancouver, Anaheim has beat Phoenix...

and so on.

 

[Kin]

Bad teams lose to even worse teams.  On paper and by urgency, the Leafs should have won this game.  Getting one point may help in the standings, but it just proves that this team is not very good, and it is the good teams destroy the bad ones.

One game doesn't prove anything. Fans during the lockout clamored for the NFL-ization of the NHL and what Potvin posted above wrt to recent results is that in action. Yesterday the Chiefs beat the Packers and the Colts won by 14. You know the phrase "any given sunday"? That's what parity means.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Bad teams lose to even worse teams.  On paper and by urgency, the Leafs should have won this game.  Getting one point may help in the standings, but it just proves that this team is not very good, and it is the good teams destroy the bad ones.

One game doesn't prove anything. Fans during the lockout clamored for the NFL-ization of the NHL and what Potvin posted above wrt to recent results is that in action. Yesterday the Chiefs beat the Packers and the Colts won by 14. You know the phrase "any given sunday"? That's what parity means.

This is the most visual realization of that parity - they've said it's the closest the East has been since the lockout (and maybe ever at this point?).

 

[TML fan]

the good teams destroy the bad ones.

Except that it is never that simple.  In the last week - Isles have beat Minny, Ottawa has beat Pittsburgh, Carolina and Columbus have beat Vancouver, Anaheim has beat Phoenix...

and so on.

Since we are trying to put perspective on things here:

Minnesota is 2nd in West, 10 pts from 9th
Pittsburgh is T4th in East, 6 pts from 9th
Vancouver is T5th in West, 7 pts from 9th


The point is that those teams can afford to lose games like that. One because it doesnt put them in danger of falling behind the conference, and two because they normally beat teams they should which is why they are at the top of their conferences...and when youre at the top youre going to lose most of your games to teams worse than you.

The Leafs are sitting 2 points from 9th place after their hot start. The Leafs are a bubble team and if they want to find themselves on the right side of that bubble by seasons end, they need to win the games that other, much better teams can afford to lose.

 

[Kin]

Since we are trying to put perspective on things here:

Minnesota is 2nd in West, 10 pts from 9th
Pittsburgh is T4th in East, 6 pts from 9th
Vancouver is T5th in West, 7 pts from 9th


The point is that those teams can afford to lose games like that.

But that has little to do with what Potvin is saying there. The Kings "needed" to win last night too. The issue here is that single games don't prove anything substantial about the quality of a team.

 

[TML fan]

Since we are trying to put perspective on things here:

Minnesota is 2nd in West, 10 pts from 9th
Pittsburgh is T4th in East, 6 pts from 9th
Vancouver is T5th in West, 7 pts from 9th


The point is that those teams can afford to lose games like that.

But that has little to do with what Potvin is saying there. The Kings "needed" to win last night too. The issue here is that single games don't prove anything substantial about the quality of a team.

But here's the thing Nik, I'm not a Kings fan and thus I could care less what the Kings needed to do. The Kings made the playoffs last year so I'm thinking that they probably won a lot of games that they needed to...unlike the Leafs who will probably be on the outside looking in again because of loses like last night...and that WILL say everything about the quality of the team.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

the good teams destroy the bad ones.

Except that it is never that simple.  In the last week - Isles have beat Minny, Ottawa has beat Pittsburgh, Carolina and Columbus have beat Vancouver, Anaheim has beat Phoenix...

and so on.

That is true, but in the past 3 years, how many teams had their losing streaks snapped when they played against the Leafs?  The Kings were on a losing streak, not playing great hockey and ripe for a beating.  Instead, they walked into the ACC and handed the Leafs their backsides on a silver platter. 

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I don't usually hold a grudge, but today, I'm still steaming about that offside goal. Cost the game IMO.

 

[Tigger]

Wilson is Burke's 1st star so far this season.

If I were Wilson and there's a deal on the table, I'd grab a pen pretty darn quick.

The Leafs come from behind to tie against a team with a string of whatever going into the third, gut out a point, dominate in ot and you want to write off the coach?

Get a grip.

I guess you've missed the whole 9 wins in the last 23 games thing?

You really think that's entirely a result of coaching? It should apply to this game?

I guess I can never blame coaching for anything. 9 wins in 23 games? Downward trend. 40+ shots against offensively challenged team? Just a fluke. 3 straight losses and 30th best PK? Bad luck.

Why even have a coach? We can blame poor play on so many other things.

I think the word 'entirely' was lost on you somewhat and obviously the coach is responsible however I think looking at Reimers struggles alone can give some texture to the conversation.

LA may be having a recent issue with offense but they're a good team that made the playoffs last year. Quick was excellent for them and the Leafs not only made a game of it but almost won it in OT, it was a tough loss but I thought the Leafs showed some encouraging signs if for nothing but Reimer and getting that point.

Was that the first time this year they've lost 3 in a row? I'm not 100% but I think so.

The Leafs were always going to be in tough to make the playoffs, they're not out of it and if they can muster the way they did last year they still have a pretty good shot at it.

Honestly, your last line, it's not as 'all or nothing' as you make it out to be, the players still have to play the games and every team is going to have ups and downs, take heart, they're improving for the most part and heading in a better direction overall.

 

[Tigger]

the good teams destroy the bad ones.

Except that it is never that simple.  In the last week - Isles have beat Minny, Ottawa has beat Pittsburgh, Carolina and Columbus have beat Vancouver, Anaheim has beat Phoenix...

and so on.

That is true, but in the past 3 years, how many teams had their losing streaks snapped when they played against the Leafs?  The Kings were on a losing streak, not playing great hockey and ripe for a beating.  Instead, they walked into the ACC and handed the Leafs their backsides on a silver platter.

Uh, the Leafs came from behind to get a point, it wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be. I recall a few in game posts about how good the game was and I thought so too.

You make it sound like they played Boston or something.

 

[Zee]

Not the first time we've lost 3 in a row. It's also 5 out of 6 now (also the 2nd time that's happened this season)

Leafs started out great at 7-2-1 and since then the same problems we've seen under Wilson are back rearing their ugly heads.

If we lose against Buffalo, that's 4 in a row (a first) and 6 out of 7. At what point should I get alarmed?

 

[Hockey_gal]

the good teams destroy the bad ones.

Except that it is never that simple.  In the last week - Isles have beat Minny, Ottawa has beat Pittsburgh, Carolina and Columbus have beat Vancouver, Anaheim has beat Phoenix...

and so on.

Since we are trying to put perspective on things here:

Minnesota is 2nd in West, 10 pts from 9th
Pittsburgh is T4th in East, 6 pts from 9th
Vancouver is T5th in West, 7 pts from 9th


The point is that those teams can afford to lose games like that. One because it doesnt put them in danger of falling behind the conference, and two because they normally beat teams they should which is why they are at the top of their conferences...and when youre at the top youre going to lose most of your games to teams worse than you.

The Leafs are sitting 2 points from 9th place after their hot start. The Leafs are a bubble team and if they want to find themselves on the right side of that bubble by seasons end, they need to win the games that other, much better teams can afford to lose.

Points help but Wild have lost 5 in a row..lost to the Flames.

Teams go through bad stretches..Leafs young and learning.