General Leafs Talk: Post-Olympics Edition

[OldTimeHockey]

The upside on Gardiner is too high, the sky is the limit really..in time he will learn to be better defensively but right now his offensive ability is unquestionable..

His defensive issues are hugely overblown as far as I'm concerned. His main problem, if you can call it that, is that the Leafs' forwards often don't have the minor hockey-level knowledge of when to back up their pinching D. But in terms of his play in the defensive end - his ability to move the puck, break out, get be in the right place positionally - he's one of the best, if not the best on the team. He's the only Leafs defenseman able to consistently move the puck up ice instead of getting hemmed in for extended periods of time.

My only issue with him defensively is he sometimes gets caught in no man's land and there was no real reason to wander there. That should improve over time though.

And for those that criticize his pinching....Pinching is only viewed poorly when it fails....100% of the time when it fails it looks like a mistake..because it was...But the other 100% of the time when it works, it looks like a stroke of genius.

It's all about timing and Gardiner seems to be improving on the timing of his pinches game in and game out.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah I think the league has gradually moved away from those big, defensive defensemen type guys.  They still exist in the league, but they're not really big pieces on a team's defense.  Now almost all D have to able to skate really well because you can't hook and hold so much.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Yeah I think the league has gradually moved away from those big, defensive defensemen type guys.  They still exist in the league, but they're not really big pieces on a team's defense.  Now almost all D have to able to skate really well because you can't hook and hold so much.

Well yes, this is true. If we're looking for Scott Stevens(I picked him because he was the first bruisert that came to mind) on 'D' I don't think you'll find him....not as an impact defensemen.

Look at Cam Fowler in Anaheim...He was viewed as an offense first guy but because of his skills and great skating he's really shored up his defensive game..His offensive numbers aren't great but that may come with age.

 

[Kin]

I'm starting to wonder if the term "defensive defenceman" really just means "unskilled player you don't want around much."  I mean the guys that really excell defensively like Chara and Doughty and Pronger and Pietrangelo also seem to put up a lot of points.  It is probably hard to be really skilled at preventing goals without also having some skill in the scoring department.

If you look at recent cup winners, though, just about all of them have guys who played significant minutes on the blue line without being particularly good at scoring points. Chicago has Hjalmarsson, LA had Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi, Boston had Andrew Ference and Johnny Boychuck, the Penguins had Scuderi and Hal Gill, the Red Wings had guys like Chelios and Brad Stuart and so on and so forth.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@markhmasters

Asst coach Cronin told players that although Blues outshot Leafs 21-5 in 1st 18 mins, the scoring chances were only 5-3 STL

ESPN's shot tracker from 1st period:

 

[bustaheims]

I'm genuinely curious as to how the Leafs' coaching staff currently defines what is and what isn't a scoring chance, because the numbers that they're putting out there just don't fly with the games that I've watched.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

@markhmasters

Asst coach Cronin told players that although Blues outshot Leafs 21-5 in 1st 18 mins, the scoring chances were only 5-3 STL

Same guy who thought the Leafs weren't outpossessed last season. Amazing.

 

[AvroArrow]

This comes from the "very unlikely to actually happen" playbook but it would be interesting to muse about trading Phaneuf to Edmonton in a combination that returns Edmonton's top pick this year.  Such a trade might suit both teams.

...

Now, because this would make the team substantially worse in the short term, Nonis just won't do it but it might interesting to discuss.

I'm not adverse to moving Phaneuf to change things up.  I think in a situation like that, though, you turn around and go hard after guys like Edler and Byfuglien.

 

[AvroArrow]

This comes from the "very unlikely to actually happen" playbook but it would be interesting to muse about trading Phaneuf to Edmonton in a combination that returns Edmonton's top pick this year.  Such a trade might suit both teams.

...

Now, because this would make the team substantially worse in the short term, Nonis just won't do it but it might interesting to discuss.

I'm not adverse to moving Phaneuf to change things up.  I think in a situation like that, though, you turn around and go hard after guys like Edler and Byfuglien.

As maybe another option, if Vancouver is looking to shake things up:

Phaneuf + Lupul  FOR  Edler + Bieksa

<mix some picks/prospects as required to even things out>
<or maybe Gunnarsson instead of Lupul - 2 D for 2 D>

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@markhmasters

Asst coach Cronin told players that although Blues outshot Leafs 21-5 in 1st 18 mins, the scoring chances were only 5-3 STL

Same guy who thought the Leafs weren't outpossessed last season. Amazing.

Yeah I think it was him who said something like, the Leafs had a ton of zone time with possession just waiting to take shots, but then someone actually watched a bunch of games and timed zone time and the Leafs got killed in it.

I honestly think he's just making stuff up to sound good to the fans.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I honestly think he's just making stuff up to sound good to the fans.

I mean I guess that would at least kind of make sense, but this particular line was fed to players in practice.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I honestly think he's just making stuff up to sound good to the fans.

I mean I guess that would at least kind of make sense, but this particular line was fed to players in practice.

Oh true, I forgot that aspect of it.  Try to give them confidence?  I don't know, seems counterproductive to make them think they were that close in that game.

 

[Jalili]

Yeah I think the league has gradually moved away from those big, defensive defensemen type guys.  They still exist in the league, but they're not really big pieces on a team's defense.  Now almost all D have to able to skate really well because you can't hook and hold so much.

Exactly. The only real change in defensive D-men is how their skillsets have evolved. The "new era" type of D-man relies more on skating, stickwork, and positioning to be effective. e.g. Vlasic, Hjalmarsson

Instead of brawn and physicality.

Hence why guys like Schenn/Komisarek have become far more obsolete.

 

[L K]

I honestly think he's just making stuff up to sound good to the fans.

I mean I guess that would at least kind of make sense, but this particular line was fed to players in practice.

Nothing says quality coaching like lying/making things up.

 

[pnjunction]

I honestly think he's just making stuff up to sound good to the fans.

I mean I guess that would at least kind of make sense, but this particular line was fed to players in practice.

Nothing says quality coaching like lying/making things up.

Besides the way the team plays, this bizarre sugarcoating/blinders and Carlyle's "can't complain when we're winning" comments really make think the whole coaching house needs to be cleaned out.

 

[Jalili]

Detroit losing 2-0 to Montreal.

 

[Jalili]

Tatar with 2 snipes in the 3rd to tie the game 3-3.

Edit: 4-3 Habs now. Good game for anyone interested.

 

[Derk]

Looks like Detroit has burned one of their games in hand and still have 80 points. Two HUGE games coming up for the Leafs.

 

[bustaheims]

mirtle: Since the first month, the Leafs have won only 26 of 61 games. Eight of those were shootout wins. That's a ROW less than every three games.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

mirtle: Since the first month, the Leafs have won only 26 of 61 games. Eight of those were shootout wins. That's a ROW less than every three games.

A sample size of larger than all of last season.