General Leafs Talk

[princedpw]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

It's also a reflection of how little time the Leafs spend with the puck in the offensive zone, heck in any zone. I hate it. I hate the way the Leafs play. I never thought I'd be this dissatisfied to be in a playoff position this late in the season. I mean, I'm ecstatic the Leafs are probably getting in, but expectations going in couldn't be lower. I don't have high hopes for a full 82 game season either...
[/quote]

Unfortunately, it would seem that the future is just about as bleak this year as last.  In fact, in terms of puck possession, the leafs are worse this year than last.  The only team worse is the Oilers.  The following article explains why we should predict the leafs the leafs will likely do substantially worse next year than this one, unless there is some kind of miraculous influx of new talent from somewhere.  It also explains why the Kings are far and away favorites to repeat.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/3/27/4153776/the-best-worst-possession-teams-of-the-last-5-years

 

[hockeyfan1]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs aTdressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

[/quote]

Yes, all that is true, but, in spite of the glaring weakness, it can certainly be rectified by improving thu defence somewhat. Especially in the playoffs when defence becomes all too important.  They'll need to 'tighten' up but not at the expense of the offence.

Not only do the Leafs need more balanced scoring and less sloppy defence, for the playoffs, by balanced we mean the offence 'helping' the defence and vice versa.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.
[/quote]

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"

 

[cw]

Leafs are tied for 3rd on the PK at 86.7% kill rate
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=420111

Over the last 27 games, after their personnel got acquainted, 92% - which is probably best in the league over that time.

Reimer boasts an .893 save percentage when his team is shorthanded this season, tied for third amongst goaltenders with at least 20 starts. His percentage on the penalty kill a year ago was .808, right in line with what was then the league's third-worst penalty kill.

So Reimer deserves some of the credit but so do the skaters.

I'm not all in on shots against being a great reliable criteria. It can be inflated with style - giving up shots from the outside to help win a turnover as a result of the shot. And it can be inflated with shot blocking philosophy for the goaltender: does the goalie want everything possible blocked (like Curtis Joseph) or does the goalie want blocking efforts reduced so he can see the shot (like Ed Belfour).

 

[Zee]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"
[/quote]

I agree.  Instead of enjoying some good hockey and a winning team, people analyze corsi stats now to tell us how bad a team actually is, regardless of their record.  According to that article Anaheim is a terrible team despite the fact that they're 3rd overall in the standings.  Let's not bother watching games anymore, let's just look at the corsi numbers after!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"

I agree.  Instead of enjoying some good hockey and a winning team, people analyze corsi stats now to tell us how bad a team actually is, regardless of their record.  According to that article Anaheim is a terrible team despite the fact that they're 3rd overall in the standings.  Let's not bother watching games anymore, let's just look at the corsi numbers after!
[/quote]

It's a way of predicting success.  It's not going to be correct 100% of the time.  7 of the 25 worst corsi teams over the past 5 seasons have made the playoffs.  Nobody is saying don't watch the games, but it's weak to look at it and say "there's 1 result that goes against the overall point" and dismiss it entirely.  Teams can have success with poor corsi, teams get lucky during a season, get great goaltending, etc, but it's not sustainable.

 

[TML fan]

Particularly during a shortened season.

 

[Zee]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"

I agree.  Instead of enjoying some good hockey and a winning team, people analyze corsi stats now to tell us how bad a team actually is, regardless of their record.  According to that article Anaheim is a terrible team despite the fact that they're 3rd overall in the standings.  Let's not bother watching games anymore, let's just look at the corsi numbers after!

It's a way of predicting success.  It's not going to be correct 100% of the time.  7 of the 25 worst corsi teams over the past 5 seasons have made the playoffs.  Nobody is saying don't watch the games, but it's weak to look at it and say "there's 1 result that goes against the overall point" and dismiss it entirely.  Teams can have success with poor corsi, teams get lucky during a season, get great goaltending, etc, but it's not sustainable.
[/quote]

Where's a site where I can actually see the current numbers for CF%?  I've looked at a couple of "corsi" stats sites and don't see that stat.

Edit: found it at http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/
Edit2: all those numbers and categories make my head hurt

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Oh it makes mine hurt too.  I'm not a numbers person in general.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Edit2: all those numbers and categories make my head hurt

I have no idea, nor a desire to know what most of those stats mean.

I like watching hockey. If I felt like going back to school and looking at numbers I'd sign up for Advanced Calculus.

 

[hockeyfan1]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"

I agree.  Instead of enjoying some good hockey and a winning team, people analyze corsi stats now to tell us how bad a team actually is, regardless of their record.  According to that article Anaheim is a terrible team despite the fact that they're 3rd overall in the standings.  Let's not bother watching games anymore, let's just look at the corsi numbers after!

[/quote]

You're right.  Too heck with numbers & stats.  Guess been reading too much into that (negativity). 

Let's stay positive and cheer the Leafs on to the playoffs!!!

GO LEAFS GO!!!!

 

[nutman]

[quote author=hockeyfan1]
Also,  the Leafs lead the league in shots given up (five on five).  Another thing that needs addressing.

None of these are glaring weaknesses that can't bv corrected, ...

Actually, being last in the league in shots against is a glaring weakness.  Shots against is one of the best ways to measure team defense. It means the leafs are possibly the worst defensive team in the league, whose weaknesses are covered up by good goaltending, good offense and probably a fair amount of luck.

Shots against mean squat if you can't prove where the shots are coming from. Now, if you were to tell me the Leafs were the worst in scoring chances given up(they very well may be), then we'd be getting somewhere.



Note: I'm not saying giving up the most shots in the league is a good thing.




Biggest question is, what's with the sudden influx of Debbie Downers? I mean, I get being realistic and all, but despite the constant pessimism, this team is sitting in 5th place in the East with a relatively excellent shot at making the playoffs.

Isn't this what everyone was screaming for all summer long? "I don't care how they get there, I just want some playoff hockey!"

I agree.  Instead of enjoying some good hockey and a winning team, people analyze corsi stats now to tell us how bad a team actually is, regardless of their record.  According to that article Anaheim is a terrible team despite the fact that they're 3rd overall in the standings.  Let's not bother watching games anymore, let's just look at the corsi numbers after!

You're right.  Too heck with numbers & stats.  Guess been reading too much into that (negativity). 

Let's stay positive and cheer the Leafs on to the playoffs!!!

GO LEAFS GO!!!!
[/quote]


Now your talking  ;D

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So Kulemin gets a lot of flack from some people, especially in the media, someone over on reddit put this together about him.

7th on the Leafs for Points (on pace for about 15 goales and 40 points in an 82 game season).
4th in hits, only behind Komarov, Phaneuf and Fraser (has 103)
Leads our forwards in blocked shots with 42. (Jay has 31)
Has 12 Giveaways, with 27 takeaways (best ratio on our team)
Fourth on the team for 5 on 5 points (behind Kadri, Kessel, and JVR) (and all his points have come 5 on 5)
Is only behind Jay for shorthanded ice time for our forwards. (has 2:03 per game)
I think too much credit is going to Jay for our penalty kill. Kulemin has never played more than 1:30 SH TOI/G before this season, and now that he is in the 2 minute range our PK has improved, Does Jay deserve most of the credit? Sure, but we need to appreciate Kulemin's role for the Leafs a lot more instead of putting him down for not scoring 30 goals.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

So Kulemin gets a lot of flack from some people, especially in the media, someone over on reddit put this together about him.

7th on the Leafs for Points (on pace for about 15 goales and 40 points in an 82 game season).
4th in hits, only behind Komarov, Phaneuf and Fraser (has 103)
Leads our forwards in blocked shots with 42. (Jay has 31)
Has 12 Giveaways, with 27 takeaways (best ratio on our team)
Fourth on the team for 5 on 5 points (behind Kadri, Kessel, and JVR) (and all his points have come 5 on 5)
Is only behind Jay for shorthanded ice time for our forwards. (has 2:03 per game)
I think too much credit is going to Jay for our penalty kill. Kulemin has never played more than 1:30 SH TOI/G before this season, and now that he is in the 2 minute range our PK has improved, Does Jay deserve most of the credit? Sure, but we need to appreciate Kulemin's role for the Leafs a lot more instead of putting him down for not scoring 30 goals.

Kulemin continues to be one of my favourite players out there.

 

[Redleaf]

What will Nonis do with Grabo and Bozak in the off season?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11/leafs-have-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-their-centremen-in-off-season

My guess is that Grabo is traded, another centre, possibly Stastny is brought in for first line duty, and Bozak is retained for 3rd line duty.

 

[nutman]

What will Nonis do with Grabo and Bozak in the off season?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11/leafs-have-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-their-centremen-in-off-season

My guess is that Grabo is traded, another centre, possibly Stastny is brought in for first line duty, and Bozak is retained for 3rd line duty.

So does this mean you don't think Joe Colburne will be that top center were waiting on?.  I'm not with you on this one at all. I am saying the same thing as I said with Kadri, as well as a few of the other Marlies, next season Joe will be a big part of this team. As for Bozak, he will not be going anywhere. grabbo, now that may be the guy who goes, but I think how he plays in the playoffs will play a big part in that. Remember, from here on out we will be dealing from a point of strength, and in a nut shell that means out castoffs will fetch nice picks or solid prospects. the leafs have been build right this time.

 

[Deebo]

What will Nonis do with Grabo and Bozak in the off season?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11/leafs-have-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-their-centremen-in-off-season

My guess is that Grabo is traded, another centre, possibly Stastny is brought in for first line duty, and Bozak is retained for 3rd line duty.

So does this mean you don't think Joe Colburne will be that top center were waiting on?.  I'm not with you on this one at all. I am saying the same thing as I said with Kadri, as well as a few of the other Marlies, next season Joe will be a big part of this team.

What are you basing your evaluation of Joe Colborne on?

 

[Zee]

What will Nonis do with Grabo and Bozak in the off season?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11/leafs-have-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-their-centremen-in-off-season

My guess is that Grabo is traded, another centre, possibly Stastny is brought in for first line duty, and Bozak is retained for 3rd line duty.

So does this mean you don't think Joe Colburne will be that top center were waiting on?.  I'm not with you on this one at all. I am saying the same thing as I said with Kadri, as well as a few of the other Marlies, next season Joe will be a big part of this team. As for Bozak, he will not be going anywhere. grabbo, now that may be the guy who goes, but I think how he plays in the playoffs will play a big part in that. Remember, from here on out we will be dealing from a point of strength, and in a nut shell that means out castoffs will fetch nice picks or solid prospects. the leafs have been build right this time.

Colborne has the size you like to see for a center, but it's a huge risk you take by just slotting him in as the #1C.  There's nothing in his play at the Marlies that indicates he's ready to be given top line minutes for the Leafs.  He may turn into a good NHLer or he may be a bust.  There's nobody that thinks he's a can't miss prospect.  I'd really like to see you be right on this one, because if the Leafs can promote from within, it solves a boatload of problems with the center position and Grabovski can be moved.

 

[Champ Kind]

So Kulemin gets a lot of flack from some people, especially in the media, someone over on reddit put this together about him.

7th on the Leafs for Points (on pace for about 15 goales and 40 points in an 82 game season).
4th in hits, only behind Komarov, Phaneuf and Fraser (has 103)
Leads our forwards in blocked shots with 42. (Jay has 31)
Has 12 Giveaways, with 27 takeaways (best ratio on our team)
Fourth on the team for 5 on 5 points (behind Kadri, Kessel, and JVR) (and all his points have come 5 on 5)
Is only behind Jay for shorthanded ice time for our forwards. (has 2:03 per game)
I think too much credit is going to Jay for our penalty kill. Kulemin has never played more than 1:30 SH TOI/G before this season, and now that he is in the 2 minute range our PK has improved, Does Jay deserve most of the credit? Sure, but we need to appreciate Kulemin's role for the Leafs a lot more instead of putting him down for not scoring 30 goals.

Kulemin continues to be one of my favourite players out there.

Why doesn't the author of that quote like to spell "McClement"?

 

[leafplasma]

What will Nonis do with Grabo and Bozak in the off season?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/11/leafs-have-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-their-centremen-in-off-season

My guess is that Grabo is traded, another centre, possibly Stastny is brought in for first line duty, and Bozak is retained for 3rd line duty.

So does this mean you don't think Joe Colburne will be that top center were waiting on?.  I'm not with you on this one at all. I am saying the same thing as I said with Kadri, as well as a few of the other Marlies, next season Joe will be a big part of this team. As for Bozak, he will not be going anywhere. grabbo, now that may be the guy who goes, but I think how he plays in the playoffs will play a big part in that. Remember, from here on out we will be dealing from a point of strength, and in a nut shell that means out castoffs will fetch nice picks or solid prospects. the leafs have been build right this time.

Nutman even in your world of butterflies and ferris wheels do you honestly think that Joe would be handed the first line centre spot next season. Even Kadri after the season he has had this year hasn't even been moved up to play along side Kessel yet.  I think at best you may see Joe maybe on the third line next season and he will be moved along slowly just as Kadri has.