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General Leafs Talk

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Potvin29 said:
My joke aside, I am curious to hear opinions on his worth.
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Probably in the vicinity of $3.5M per on a shorter deal. This past season was the first time he looked like more than a ~30 point dman, and they're generally paid ~$3M per.
 
Potvin29 said:
So what's Franson worth?  Outscored Bozak from the back-end, so 5 years, $22 million?
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I'm afraid of that... but you're most likely right, he'll get a fair bit of dough. If we could get one or two of them to wait a year before cashing in, everything might be alright next year. These players have to look at what Nonis did in the past 3 weeks and believe that they have a real chance here for something special.

Otherwise, I think Gardiner will play with Phaneuf and Gunnarsson and Liles are goners. I really don't want to lose Franson, I think he'll even get better than he is right now. It's too bad he only plays the left side on the PP, because him and Phaneuf would be a dominate pairing I think.
 
Can we pay him like the Habs paid Subban?  If we pay him $4+ million, we have to rid ourselves of Liles without taking salary back.  I don't see how that is possible.
 
princedpw said:
Can we pay him like the Habs paid Subban?  If we pay him $4+ million, we have to rid ourselves of Liles without taking salary back.  I don't see how that is possible.
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Bah, forgot about him being around still.
 
8th highest scoring defenceman in the league this season. 53-point scoring pace if it was an 82-game season. Could have probably even had more if Kostka wasn't stealing his PP time for the first half or so of the season. I think $3.5mil would be a very good deal for the Leafs, but I expect something higher.
 
I wouldn't go above 3 million a year for Franson. He has some pretty big flaws and his stats, I think, are padded by him playing against bottom line forwards. He makes alot of mistakes, can't pass, and plays a fairly soft defensive game. His shot is great and he does have an upside, however.
 
Potvin29 said:
My joke aside, I am curious to hear opinions on his worth.
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I have no idea. I thought $2.5m-3m/yr, but the way Noni's been weighing performances in the last season to make roster choices... I have no idea. $4m sounds like a reasonable contract request. 
 
Deebo said:
Subban sounds like a good comparable to me.
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I've maintained this all along. If Franson's agent wants to look at comparables  look no further than Subban who played more minutes had more points and won the Norris. Sure the Habs squeezed him but as an RFA it was their right. Love how agents only use comparables when it suits them.

Bottom line no more than 2.7 for Franson.
 
Franson is dreaming if he thinks he's worth anything above 3 mil at this point in his career. No way I pay him more than Subban. I'd rather just trade him if it came down to that.

I think he signs for 2.7 on a 1 year deal. Let's see how he does over 82 games.
 
It depends on deal length and Nonis approach. If it is 1 or 2 years deal, I agree that 2.7-2.8 is maximum, however if the deal is longer and the Leafs management believes he is capable to put together several consecutive 40+ pts. seasons, Nonis may be tempted to lock him long term at >3.0M and hoping to achieve Kaberle effect rather than save now and pay dearly in two years time as it is going to be the case with Subban.
 
TML fan said:
Franson is dreaming if he thinks he's worth anything above 3 mil at this point in his career. No way I pay him more than Subban. I'd rather just trade him if it came down to that.

I think he signs for 2.7 on a 1 year deal. Let's see how he does over 82 games.
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I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I agree with you that half a season of good play makes him questionable and that one would like to see more.

But his agent can say to the arbitrator:
- he had the second highest ppg for dmen in the playoffs
- his team gave him the second most minutes of their dmen when it mattered most
- he rounded out his game accoording to his coach who started to utilize him on the PK
- he displaced a $3.8 mil/yr dman in Liles
- the confidence his coach had in him grew as the season progressed
- he was tied for 6th overall in league scoring for dmen playing substantially fewer minutes than those in the top 30 (in order words, he was 3rd in pts per minute played behind Subban & Letang)
- in the final season before Subban's deal, he was 26th in dman scoring with a lot more ice time and his team didn't make the playoffs

His agent can tell an arbitrator some pretty impressive things. Historically, guys that pull those sorts of things off - even for one season, have tended to do well in arbitration.

Selfishly as a fan, it would be great if the guy would play five years at the league minimum so they could afford a shutdown PK dman to help them out. But the reality is he's going to cash in some on what he did and if I were in his boots, I would too - I can't blame him. He may well wind up a little north of Subban's deal depending on the term.
 
cw said:
TML fan said:
Franson is dreaming if he thinks he's worth anything above 3 mil at this point in his career. No way I pay him more than Subban. I'd rather just trade him if it came down to that.

I think he signs for 2.7 on a 1 year deal. Let's see how he does over 82 games.
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I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I agree with you that half a season of good play makes him questionable and that one would like to see more.

But his agent can say to the arbitrator:
- he had the second highest ppg for dmen in the playoffs
- his team gave him the second most minutes of their dmen when it mattered most
- he rounded out his game accoording to his coach who started to utilize him on the PK
- he displaced a $3.8 mil/yr dman in Liles
- the confidence his coach had in him grew as the season progressed
- he was tied for 6th overall in league scoring for dmen playing substantially fewer minutes than those in the top 30 (in order words, he was 3rd in pts per minute played behind Subban & Letang)
- in the final season before Subban's deal, he was 26th in dman scoring with a lot more ice time and his team didn't make the playoffs

His agent can tell an arbitrator some pretty impressive things. Historically, guys that pull those sorts of things off - even for one season, have tended to do well in arbitration.

Selfishly as a fan, it would be great if the guy would play five years at the league minimum so they could afford a shutdown PK dman to help them out. But the reality is he's going to cash in some on what he did and if I were in his boots, I would too - I can't blame him. He may well wind up a little north of Subban's deal depending on the term.
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One other note for perspective on this:
Another team could offer Franson, Gunnarsson or Kadri $3.36 mil per year as a RFA and only give up a 2nd round pick if the Leafs don't match. I would think they'd definitely match the Kadri offer without thinking twice.  They might think about the other two but if they let them go, they'd probably have to go to the UFA market which is pretty slim on good dmen this summer - though there are still a few deals to be had but no one decent who played 19+ mins/game (typical top 4 minutes).
 
cw said:
One other note for perspective on this:
Another team could offer Franson, Gunnarsson or Kadri $3.36 mil per year as a RFA and only give up a 2nd round pick if the Leafs don't match. I would think they'd definitely match the Kadri offer without thinking twice.  They might think about the other two but if they let them go, they'd probably have to go to the UFA market which is pretty slim on good dmen this summer - though there are still a few deals to be had but no one decent who played 19+ mins/game (typical top 4 minutes).
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Well, if the Leafs can't trade Liles, Nonis might have to trade Gunnarsson out. It would be nice to know now if Morgan Rielly is ready for prime time. I suppose we could get a bit more evaluation at the rookie camp, but it's hard to judge without game action.

But if I had my choice, I'm keeping Franson over Gunnarsson.
 
A little off-topic so my apologies. At first I thought Lupul's most recent tweet was a dig toward Bozak but realize now it's just him criticizing advanced stats for whatever reason. Ha.

Joffrey Lupul ‏@JLupul 2h
If you bring certain attributes and you play to win. I'll take you on my team 7 nights a week. Lets not look at this like Moneyball.

Joffrey Lupul ‏@JLupul 2h
contracts aren't awarded by this CORSI i am hearing all about. They are awarded for an equal value of skill and depth (at a certain position
 
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