Goaltending conundrum

[rdowdall]

There seems to be this belief that Allaire tries to convert all goaltenders into replicas of each other. While I think he may advocate a style, I'm finding it hard to believe he doesn't appreciate each goaltender's unique talents and abilities and consequently adapts.

I wonder if what we say Allaire do was break Gustavsson down to build him back up.  Last year it seemed like Gustavsson's game fell apart as he got stuck in this in-between land where he tried to play more positionally but was facing shots at bad angles and it was messing with his ability to make athletic saves. 

Lately it seems like Gus has been relying more on his physical attributes to makes saves (he's done the diving save/poke-check way out of the crease thing 3 or 4 times this year and he wasn't really doing that last year) but he's also a lot more sound in the net. 

One thing that I think is maybe a little underrated for his play is that he's kicking his rebounds to teammates for the most part.  Sometimes, the puck is going to higher pressure zones (the slot, out to the half-boards) but it's being picked up by his defense to get the puck out of the zone.  Millen keeps whining about Gustavsson's rebound control, and so I started watching it more, and it really seems like he's kicking it away from the opposition on a pretty routine basis.  Gustavsson was never a guy who used soft pads that had the puck drop at his feet like Belfour did.  I wish Millen would clue in to that instead of complaining about the fact that Gus doesn't hold every single shot for a whistle.

I want to know if Allaire is the guy getting his goalies to do the swinging poke-check behind the net though.  Reimer did it a time or two earlier in the year and it was funny to see a goalie do it for the first time since the 70s, but Gustavsson is doing it pretty much every other game now.  I don't remember him doing that last year.

The rebound thing may be a change in philosophy.  I was in a store a while back trying to buy new pads.  The salesman said that the old pads were designed to deaden the rebound, whereas the new pads are meant to allow you to kick it all the way out to the blue line.  Not sure of why the changes, but that is what I was told. I guess maybe because you don't want pucks lying around in the crease when you are down in the butterfly, but I can't say for sure.

 

[x.jr.benchwarmer]

Gus should still play the vast majority of the  games while the Leafs are still playing well in front of him, and are winning, IMHO.

It seems that Gus is playing with more confidence, and is sharper on his rebound control, and is battling hard for the puck. 

By contrast, it seems that the majority of the posters here recognize that Reimer has to play better before being given another chance carte blanch.

It is not necessarily the case that the Leafs will continue to get the wins with Reimer in net and, moreover, Reimer's play this year doesn't warrant him to be given even a significant minority of the starts if Gus continues to play well.

Reimer last year was great, IMHO.  The team played well in front of him, and he was so strong especially when the games were tough, and he came up big in so many pressure situations.

But this year, looking at his play objectively, it is simply not good enough (to say the least).

36th overall in GAA at 3.01;  and
38th overall in Save percentage at .900 (ahead of only Hiller who has been panned as being bad and injured, and Ward, both of whom are at .898).

That Reimer may need starts, and playing time, and a chance to get his confidence back is certainly an argument worth positing.  But the Leafs need wins, and with the great play of Lupul, and Kessel, and their relatively solid season so far, it is not the case that they should be experimenting with the concept of a tandem, or worrying about a young goalie's confidence, however harsh that may sound, IMHO. 

And certainly Gus' numbers over the year are equivalent, but as one poster astutely noted, his save percentage is actually really decent (c. .922 or so) over the past 3 or 4 weeks or so.

Reimer may very well be subject to the sophomore issue with goaltenders when opposing teams seem to find a weakness in their play.  His glove hand is weak, IMHO, so far, he seems somewhat smaller in the net, he doesn't challenge the shooter as much, there are a lot of shots that go between his legs, or over his shoulder, or under his glove.

I saw him play in Florida a couple of weeks ago, and the first shot that he had in the warm-up was a flick shot by Aulie from the high shot that went over his glove, and his blocker and glove looked really bad thereafter.  It was just a warm-up of course but I have never seen a goalie in the NHL with a worse glove than he showed that warm-up, and he didn't last over 7 shots after having given up 3 goals of course.  And of course this is just an anecdotel observation, without any context, but boy did he look bad in that game, particularly seeing it live.

He just isn't playing as well as Gus now, and it seems that the announcement that the Leafs made that he would be the no. 1 goaltender in the summer, is the same thing as Giguere being handed the no. 1 job in July of 2010 until his bad play finally warranted Reimer being handed the reins.

Giguere by comparison last year was 36th overall with a .900 save percentage.

Toskala also by comparison  in '08-'09 was 43rd overall with a .891 save percentage.  And of course these numbers can be looked at in so many different ways, but I don't think that anyone is suggesting that Toskala should ever come back to the Leafs, let alone to North American minor pro hockey.

Admittedly the stats are but one standard to look at goaltending.  And Reimer last year was 10th overall in save percentage at .921.  And we are only at the approximate half-way point in the season.  But, to paraphrase Healey (which may be in itself inherently problematic), Reimer's playoff experience has been 8 games in the ECHL in total.  He doesn't necessarily deserve to be handed many starts at all if he isn't playing as well as Gus.  And he has to work on a few, if not quite a few things, before he should be expecting to get more starts. 

Just because he is young doesn't necessarily mean that he will play better in the future.  We all hope for that of course, but why should the Leaf's playoff chances (notwithstanding the great year of Lupul and Kessel and solid play by the rest of the team) be predicated on if he will improve this year.

 

[moon111]

I think positional goalies do well with defensive oriented teams.  Guys like Fuhr kept the pace alive.

 

[ZBBM]

Gus should still play the vast majority of the  games while the Leafs are still playing well in front of him, and are winning, IMHO.

It seems that Gus is playing with more confidence, and is sharper on his rebound control, and is battling hard for the puck. 

By contrast, it seems that the majority of the posters here recognize that Reimer has to play better before being given another chance carte blanch.

It is not necessarily the case that the Leafs will continue to get the wins with Reimer in net and, moreover, Reimer's play this year doesn't warrant him to be given even a significant minority of the starts if Gus continues to play well.

Reimer last year was great, IMHO.  The team played well in front of him, and he was so strong especially when the games were tough, and he came up big in so many pressure situations.

But this year, looking at his play objectively, it is simply not good enough (to say the least).

36th overall in GAA at 3.01;  and
38th overall in Save percentage at .900 (ahead of only Hiller who has been panned as being bad and injured, and Ward, both of whom are at .898).

That Reimer may need starts, and playing time, and a chance to get his confidence back is certainly an argument worth positing.  But the Leafs need wins, and with the great play of Lupul, and Kessel, and their relatively solid season so far, it is not the case that they should be experimenting with the concept of a tandem, or worrying about a young goalie's confidence, however harsh that may sound, IMHO. 

And certainly Gus' numbers over the year are equivalent, but as one poster astutely noted, his save percentage is actually really decent (c. .922 or so) over the past 3 or 4 weeks or so.

Reimer may very well be subject to the sophomore issue with goaltenders when opposing teams seem to find a weakness in their play.  His glove hand is weak, IMHO, so far, he seems somewhat smaller in the net, he doesn't challenge the shooter as much, there are a lot of shots that go between his legs, or over his shoulder, or under his glove.

I saw him play in Florida a couple of weeks ago, and the first shot that he had in the warm-up was a flick shot by Aulie from the high shot that went over his glove, and his blocker and glove looked really bad thereafter.  It was just a warm-up of course but I have never seen a goalie in the NHL with a worse glove than he showed that warm-up, and he didn't last over 7 shots after having given up 3 goals of course.  And of course this is just an anecdotel observation, without any context, but boy did he look bad in that game, particularly seeing it live.

He just isn't playing as well as Gus now, and it seems that the announcement that the Leafs made that he would be the no. 1 goaltender in the summer, is the same thing as Giguere being handed the no. 1 job in July of 2010 until his bad play finally warranted Reimer being handed the reins.

Giguere by comparison last year was 36th overall with a .900 save percentage.

Toskala also by comparison  in '08-'09 was 43rd overall with a .891 save percentage.  And of course these numbers can be looked at in so many different ways, but I don't think that anyone is suggesting that Toskala should ever come back to the Leafs, let alone to North American minor pro hockey.

Admittedly the stats are but one standard to look at goaltending.  And Reimer last year was 10th overall in save percentage at .921.  And we are only at the approximate half-way point in the season.  But, to paraphrase Healey (which may be in itself inherently problematic), Reimer's playoff experience has been 8 games in the ECHL in total.  He doesn't necessarily deserve to be handed many starts at all if he isn't playing as well as Gus.  And he has to work on a few, if not quite a few things, before he should be expecting to get more starts. 

Just because he is young doesn't necessarily mean that he will play better in the future.  We all hope for that of course, but why should the Leaf's playoff chances (notwithstanding the great year of Lupul and Kessel and solid play by the rest of the team) be predicated on if he will improve this year.

Good post.  Welcome back to the reconstituted board.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

 

[trojanweed]

long time reader, first post, huge leafs fan.

we should be riding gus as long as he's hot.  last year we did the same with reimer, but this year is far more important, we haven't been this close to playoffs in many years, we don't have the time to mess around with goalies lacking confidence. 

we have no idea who the better goalie is at this point, they are both unproven, and gus has gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to team confidence, we need to see how far he can go, but if the last 10 games show anything, he has the chops to stand between the pipes when the games matter and when the pressure is on.

i got tickets to the leafs vs sens game on march 17th, with the way things are going its going to be a huge game!!!!! 

 

[ZBBM]

long time reader, first post, huge leafs fan.

we should be riding gus as long as he's hot.  last year we did the same with reimer, but this year is far more important, we haven't been this close to playoffs in many years, we don't have the time to mess around with goalies lacking confidence. 

we have no idea who the better goalie is at this point, they are both unproven, and gus has gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to team confidence, we need to see how far he can go, but if the last 10 games show anything, he has the chops to stand between the pipes when the games matter and when the pressure is on.

i got tickets to the leafs vs sens game on march 17th, with the way things are going its going to be a huge game!!!!!

Welcome to the board.

I said some weeks ago that we needed to have at least a 5-game winning streak somewhere along the line to solidify a playoff spot.  We are 60% of the way there now, and I'd give Gus the next two starts to see if he can pull it off.  But I would play Reimer in the 2nd half of the B2Bt this weekend.

 

[Strangelove]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

 

[Corn Flake]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

You are right.

Mirtle is generally surprised by anything positive that happens to the Leafs. 

 

[Madferret]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

I don't know a lot of people around here wrote the Monster off several times earlier this season. Take Gus out of the equation and the Leafs are sitting in the 12-15 range.

 

[Corn Flake]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

I don't know a lot of people around here wrote the Monster off several times earlier this season. Take Gus out of the equation and the Leafs are sitting in the 12-15 range.

Yes, but we have noticed he's been quite good in his last 10 games.  Wins do much talking.

 

[Madferret]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

I don't know a lot of people around here wrote the Monster off several times earlier this season. Take Gus out of the equation and the Leafs are sitting in the 12-15 range.

Yes, but we have noticed he's been quite good in his last 10 games.  Wins do much talking.

Ma bouche

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@mirtle: How's this for a surprising stat: Jonas Gustavsson has eight wins and a .922 save percentage in his last 10 starts.

Honestly it shouldn't be surprising for anyone who actually bothered to watch the team this year rather than get caught up in the negative hype.  Gus has been really solid for a long time now.

You are right.

Mirtle is generally surprised by anything positive that happens to the Leafs.

I'm surprised he was able to compliment Gustavsson without somehow getting in there that he's been lucky.

 

[Fanatic]

Good Read from Mirtle

If Gus is going to be the guy then all the power to him. I am glad he is playing well. The Leafs will have to get every single point they can if they are going to make the playoffs because it will be cery close from here to the end.

 

[Zee]

Just noticed that all 3 Leafs goalies finally have save % of .900 or better, first time all season.  Maybe things are looking up defensively?  Each goalie was under .900 at one point so it points to tightening up of the defensively play / better goaltending the last little while.

 

[maplesyrup]

Dear Goose,

Sorry I doubted you... I had you written of as a goaltender not capable of playing in the NHL. For that, I'm sorry.

Sarge.

P.S. I'm going out for dinner with  John Ferguson Jr. - He taught me everything I know about judging young goaltending talent. - I'm sure you've heard of him. Anyway,  know of any good Swedish places 'round here?

 

[Erndog]

I see 2 big difference in good Gus vs. bad Gus.

1)  He is not losing his net. 

Before, when he was playing poorly, I felt he was always losing his net.  Scrambling, in poor position, angling very poorly, challenging at the wrong time, etc.  He would have to flop back in the net very often just to try and get back in position.  I remember a lot of other people mentioning this as well.  He just seemed to 'lose his net' often.  I haven't noticed that at all recently.  He seems much more aware of his surroundings.  His positioning looks night and day compared to last year/early this year.

2)  Confidence.

He seems to be filled with confidence.  Before, when he let in a poor goal or something you could see he was visibly shook up.  He often shrugged his shoulders, or 'went for a skate', or banged his stick or even gave his own D-men a look.  He was rattled.  Now he seems to be a lot more able to shrug it off and bare down.  Another thing, he used to hate handling the puck out of his net.  You could see he was hesitant.  Now he likes to come out more, stop the puck, make a pass, etc.  You can see he is playing with a ton of confidence.


I also think his glove hand is a lot better than Reimers'.

Anyways, those are the 2 biggest improvements I've seen in Gus.  Agree/disagree?

 

[maplesyrup]

I see 2 big difference in good Gus vs. bad Gus.

1)  He is not losing his net. 

Before, when he was playing poorly, I felt he was always losing his net.  Scrambling, in poor position, angling very poorly, challenging at the wrong time, etc.  He would have to flop back in the net very often just to try and get back in position.  I remember a lot of other people mentioning this as well.  He just seemed to 'lose his net' often.  I haven't noticed that at all recently.  He seems much more aware of his surroundings.  His positioning looks night and day compared to last year/early this year.

2)  Confidence.

He seems to be filled with confidence.  Before, when he let in a poor goal or something you could see he was visibly shook up.  He often shrugged his shoulders, or 'went for a skate', or banged his stick or even gave his own D-men a look.  He was rattled.  Now he seems to be a lot more able to shrug it off and bare down.  Another thing, he used to hate handling the puck out of his net.  You could see he was hesitant.  Now he likes to come out more, stop the puck, make a pass, etc.  You can see he is playing with a ton of confidence.


I also think his glove hand is a lot better than Reimers'.

Anyways, those are the 2 biggest improvements I've seen in Gus.  Agree/disagree?

Agreed... I think the point that I bolded in your post is huge. He's handling the puck much, MUCH better.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

I see 2 big difference in good Gus vs. bad Gus.

1)  He is not losing his net. 

Before, when he was playing poorly, I felt he was always losing his net.  Scrambling, in poor position, angling very poorly, challenging at the wrong time, etc.  He would have to flop back in the net very often just to try and get back in position.  I remember a lot of other people mentioning this as well.  He just seemed to 'lose his net' often.  I haven't noticed that at all recently.  He seems much more aware of his surroundings.  His positioning looks night and day compared to last year/early this year.

2)  Confidence.

He seems to be filled with confidence.  Before, when he let in a poor goal or something you could see he was visibly shook up.  He often shrugged his shoulders, or 'went for a skate', or banged his stick or even gave his own D-men a look.  He was rattled.  Now he seems to be a lot more able to shrug it off and bare down.  Another thing, he used to hate handling the puck out of his net.  You could see he was hesitant.  Now he likes to come out more, stop the puck, make a pass, etc.  You can see he is playing with a ton of confidence.


I also think his glove hand is a lot better than Reimers'.

Anyways, those are the 2 biggest improvements I've seen in Gus.  Agree/disagree?

his glove hand is much better than reimer's ...i think that's reimer's biggest weakness ..post "concussion like symptoms" he's had some other issues creep in ..but i think his biggest on going one is the glove hand

 

[Arn]

I see 2 big difference in good Gus vs. bad Gus.

1)  He is not losing his net. 

Before, when he was playing poorly, I felt he was always losing his net.  Scrambling, in poor position, angling very poorly, challenging at the wrong time, etc.  He would have to flop back in the net very often just to try and get back in position.  I remember a lot of other people mentioning this as well.  He just seemed to 'lose his net' often.  I haven't noticed that at all recently.  He seems much more aware of his surroundings.  His positioning looks night and day compared to last year/early this year.

Perhaps a hang over from moving from the Olympic sized ice to the north American sized ice? He may now be comfortable with the different angles players shoot from and the quicker speed of the smaller ice.

That can't have been an easy adjustment to make, along with the other issues he had with his health and settling in a new country and his parents and so on.