Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier

[Highlander]

No disrespect to you Bullfrog..but Randy has won a Norris and a Stanley Cup whereas we have gotten pissed a million times watching hockey..if this is his method and I don't agree with it either, it does seem to be working, but as noted I might not think so after the next few games.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't feel disrespected at all, no problem. What I'm suggesting is that these seems like a stupid thing to do. Winning a Norris and a Stanley cup seem completely irrelevant in discussing whether he's a jackass for leaving it up to the starter to tell the other he's not playing. So I suggest that it's irrelevant to discuss whether it's working or not because I doubt very highly it has any affect on the team's success.

That said, Reimer did also say it only happens from time to time.

 

[Tiger Williams]

I don't feel disrespected at all, no problem. What I'm suggesting is that these seems like a stupid thing to do. Winning a Norris and a Stanley cup seem completely irrelevant in discussing whether he's a jackass for leaving it up to the starter to tell the other he's not playing. So I suggest that it's irrelevant to discuss whether it's working or not because I doubt very highly it has any affect on the team's success.

That said, Reimer did also say it only happens from time to time.

It should never happen at all, not once.  If Carlyle is going to do that maybe he should implement the 'pass it on' thing we all did in high school - Randy tells one player to tell another player who is sitting out and who is the starting goalie, and to pass it on to the next player.

 

[Frank E]

I don't feel disrespected at all, no problem. What I'm suggesting is that these seems like a stupid thing to do. Winning a Norris and a Stanley cup seem completely irrelevant in discussing whether he's a jackass for leaving it up to the starter to tell the other he's not playing. So I suggest that it's irrelevant to discuss whether it's working or not because I doubt very highly it has any affect on the team's success.

That said, Reimer did also say it only happens from time to time.

It should never happen at all, not once.  If Carlyle is going to do that maybe he should implement the 'pass it on' thing we all did in high school - Randy tells one player to tell another player who is sitting out and who is the starting goalie, and to pass it on to the next player.

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned. 

 

[bustaheims]

No disrespect to you Bullfrog..but Randy has won a Norris and a Stanley Cup whereas we have gotten pissed a million times watching hockey..if this is his method and I don't agree with it either, it does seem to be working, but as noted I might not think so after the next few games.

That's a pretty basic logical fallacy known as an appeal to authority. Just because someone has had success in a certain field doesn't mean they're not doing something insanely poorly. Also, just because the goaltenders have been playing well doesn't mean Carlyle's tactic here are working at all. Reimer and Bernier are both very good goalies who would almost certainly be playing well regardless of their coach informed them on who was starting. What we do know is that Carlyle's relationship with the goaltenders made Reimer ask for a trade after last season, which, to me, is a pretty clear indication that it's a good thing and, really, it's not working on the larger scale.

 

[louisstamos]

I don't feel disrespected at all, no problem. What I'm suggesting is that these seems like a stupid thing to do. Winning a Norris and a Stanley cup seem completely irrelevant in discussing whether he's a jackass for leaving it up to the starter to tell the other he's not playing. So I suggest that it's irrelevant to discuss whether it's working or not because I doubt very highly it has any affect on the team's success.

That said, Reimer did also say it only happens from time to time.

It should never happen at all, not once.  If Carlyle is going to do that maybe he should implement the 'pass it on' thing we all did in high school - Randy tells one player to tell another player who is sitting out and who is the starting goalie, and to pass it on to the next player.

"Randy said Bernier is starting this game purple monkey dishwasher."

 

[bustaheims]

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, they are. It's their responsibility to tell everyone on the roster who is playing and who isn't, so that everyone can prepare accordingly. It's really not that difficult for him to have a 30 second conversation with each goaltender before every game and to tell players who aren't guaranteed to be dressed whether or not they'll be in that night. It's part of his job.

 

[Frank E]

No disrespect to you Bullfrog..but Randy has won a Norris and a Stanley Cup whereas we have gotten pissed a million times watching hockey..if this is his method and I don't agree with it either, it does seem to be working, but as noted I might not think so after the next few games.

That's a pretty basic logical fallacy known as an appeal to authority. Just because someone has had success in a certain field doesn't mean they're not doing something insanely poorly. Also, just because the goaltenders have been playing well doesn't mean Carlyle's tactic here are working at all. Reimer and Bernier are both very good goalies who would almost certainly be playing well regardless of their coach informed them on who was starting. What we do know is that Carlyle's relationship with the goaltenders made Reimer ask for a trade after last season, which, to me, is a pretty clear indication that it's a good thing and, really, it's not working on the larger scale.

Or Carlyle has created an environment that has allowed Reimer to flourish as a young goaltender.  You can't blame all the bad on Carlyle, and all the good on Reimer.

 

[bustaheims]

Or Carlyle has created an environment that has allowed Reimer to flourish as a young goaltender.  You can't blame all the bad on Carlyle, and all the good on Reimer.

The way he handles his goaltenders and the way he communicates with them 100% is all on Carlyle.

 

[Frank E]

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, they are. It's their responsibility to tell everyone on the roster who is playing and who isn't, so that everyone can prepare accordingly. It's really not that difficult for him to have a 30 second conversation with each goaltender before every game and to tell players who aren't guaranteed to be dressed whether or not they'll be in that night. It's part of his job.

No, it's their job to ensure the players that are playing are notified...those that aren't figure it out as their names aren't in the starting lineup when they announce it in the room, or sometimes simply on a board in the dressing room.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, they are. It's their responsibility to tell everyone on the roster who is playing and who isn't, so that everyone can prepare accordingly. It's really not that difficult for him to have a 30 second conversation with each goaltender before every game and to tell players who aren't guaranteed to be dressed whether or not they'll be in that night. It's part of his job.

No, it's their job to ensure the players that are playing are notified...those that aren't figure it out as their names aren't in the starting lineup when they announce it in the room, or sometimes simply on a board in the dressing room.

If the way he notifies the goalies of who is playing was a typical way coaches do it, why would Reimer call it awkward?

 

[Frank E]

Or Carlyle has created an environment that has allowed Reimer to flourish as a young goaltender.  You can't blame all the bad on Carlyle, and all the good on Reimer.

The way he handles his goaltenders and the way he communicates with them 100% is all on Carlyle.

Communication is a 2 way street, and we certainly don't know if it's all on Carlyle, or if Reimer was the one out of line with his criticism.  Maybe it was a combination of the 2 of them...we really don't know.

 

[Frank E]

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, they are. It's their responsibility to tell everyone on the roster who is playing and who isn't, so that everyone can prepare accordingly. It's really not that difficult for him to have a 30 second conversation with each goaltender before every game and to tell players who aren't guaranteed to be dressed whether or not they'll be in that night. It's part of his job.

No, it's their job to ensure the players that are playing are notified...those that aren't figure it out as their names aren't in the starting lineup when they announce it in the room, or sometimes simply on a board in the dressing room.

If the way he notifies the goalies of who is playing was a typical way coaches do it, why would Reimer call it awkward?

Because it is by nature going to be awkward between 2 guys fighting for 1 job every game?

 

[bustaheims]

Communication is a 2 way street, and we certainly don't know if it's all on Carlyle, or if Reimer was the one out of line with his criticism.  Maybe it was a combination of the 2 of them...we really don't know.

It's not just Reimer that's been critical of Carlyle's communication with his players. It's been a pretty consistent theme with him since his days behind the bench in Anaheim. So, we don't really know, but there's a lot of evidence on one side, and really, none on the other.

 

[bustaheims]

No, it's their job to ensure the players that are playing are notified...those that aren't figure it out as their names aren't in the starting lineup when they announce it in the room, or sometimes simply on a board in the dressing room.

Your'e wrong here, Frank. It's their job to communicate that information to everyone who could be impacted by it. That's coaching 101. Unless someone is a game time decision, players expect to be informed well before because, well, that's the way it's played out with every other coach they've had.

 

[bustaheims]

Because it is by nature going to be awkward between 2 guys fighting for 1 job every game?

So, they right thing to do is to make it more awkward by having them inform each other instead of having their coach inform them? That's just silly.

 

[Tiger Williams]

I don't feel disrespected at all, no problem. What I'm suggesting is that these seems like a stupid thing to do. Winning a Norris and a Stanley cup seem completely irrelevant in discussing whether he's a jackass for leaving it up to the starter to tell the other he's not playing. So I suggest that it's irrelevant to discuss whether it's working or not because I doubt very highly it has any affect on the team's success.

That said, Reimer did also say it only happens from time to time.

It should never happen at all, not once.  If Carlyle is going to do that maybe he should implement the 'pass it on' thing we all did in high school - Randy tells one player to tell another player who is sitting out and who is the starting goalie, and to pass it on to the next player.

So he should have a meeting before every game to make sure no one's feelings are hurt?  Come on...they're pro athletes playing a tandem, they get it.  He lets the starter know he's starting, done.  The coaches are also not responsible to call every scratch on a nightly basis to make sure they know they're not playing...they'll know if they are if they're told they're playing.  Non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't say anything about hurting a player's feelings - my issue is a lack of protocol on the way Carlyle informs the goalies who is starting.     

 

[Tiger Williams]

Or Carlyle has created an environment that has allowed Reimer to flourish as a young goaltender.  You can't blame all the bad on Carlyle, and all the good on Reimer.

The way he handles his goaltenders and the way he communicates with them 100% is all on Carlyle.

Communication is a 2 way street, and we certainly don't know if it's all on Carlyle, or if Reimer was the one out of line with his criticism.  Maybe it was a combination of the 2 of them...we really don't know.

Someone mentioned previously that Reimer indicated it didn't happen all the time, just sometimes, which is too many times, so I cannot see how Reimer is taking things out of context or is out of line with his criticism. 

 

[Highlander]

Perhaps he shoud text them 8)

 

[Highlander]

forgot, Phil Collins divorced wife #2 or 3 by a fax. .Ouch