Jordan Staal rumors about to heat up

[bustaheims]

I think Burke has loosened his stance there - he's pretty much admitted he'll have to in order to compete in the UFA market in the future. He just won't sign a deal that he feels includes any cap related shenanigans.

So...all of them?

Well, no. DiPietro's contract has no shenanigans. Well, at least, none that are cap related.

 

[Kin]

If put in the right position to succeed (behind his bro in Carolina, 1st line in Toronto), I do believe he'd be more inclined to sign an extension. 

I don't understand that line of thinking. Why is he in a better position to succeed in Toronto? It's a worse team.

Don't get too hung up on the idea of Jordan Staal as a "3rd liner". His average ice times the last four years have been 19:51, 19:24, 21:21 and 20:03. Going elsewhere isn't going to increase his ice time much(he ranked 27th among forwards in the entire league) and outside of changing up his ratio of PP/PK time, which would strike me as diminishing his value, I don't see what the appeal is.

I mean, unless the argument is that Jordan Staal will be happier in a place where he's more of a big deal or where his personal stats look better, I really don't see what would be better for him in Toronto.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Especially not Burke and his "I don't do long contracts" spiel.

I think Burke has loosened his stance there - he's pretty much admitted he'll have to in order to compete in the UFA market in the future. He just won't sign a deal that he feels includes any cap related shenanigans.

I remember him saying that for the right player, he'll definitely go beyond his 5 year usual. You'd have to think that a center with Jordan's age and skill set, he'd be one that Burke would go well beyond 5 years on.

 

[Kin]

Well, no. DiPietro's contract has no shenanigans. Well, at least, none that are cap related.

Well, so long as he's ok with the DiPietro contract.

 

[Zee]

Especially not Burke and his "I don't do long contracts" spiel.

I think Burke has loosened his stance there - he's pretty much admitted he'll have to in order to compete in the UFA market in the future. He just won't sign a deal that he feels includes any cap related shenanigans.

I remember him saying that for the right player, he'll definitely go beyond his 5 year usual. You'd have to think that a center with Jordan's age and skill set, he'd be one that Burke would go well beyond 5 years on.

It's going to be tough to make that trade.  I still think he has his sights set on Carolina and playing with his brother.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

It's going to be tough to make that trade.  I still think he has his sights set on Carolina and playing with his brother.

As was said, if the problem is indeed that he wants to play a bigger role, rather than being behind better players, why would he leave to go and play behind his brother of all people?

 

[Kin]

I remember him saying that for the right player, he'll definitely go beyond his 5 year usual. You'd have to think that a center with Jordan's age and skill set, he'd be one that Burke would go well beyond 5 years on.

I'll be honest, it's not an idea that fills me with a ton of confidence. As good a player as Staal has been signing him to a very long term, high value contract strikes me as kind of crazy. He's never proven himself to be a #1 centre. Why would a team lock up #1 centre money in him for a long term before then?

 

[LeafsInSeven]

Plummeting trade value for Staal in Pittsburgh makes me smile. I'm tired of everything falling into Pittsburgh's lap.

I would talk to Pittsburgh then Staal's agent (with permission) about whether he'd consider signing an extension if he moved to Toronto. He may just not want to sign an extension in Pittsburgh. He may want to spread his wings and all that and get out from behind Malkin's and Crosby's shadows. Something tells me the rumours could be true that he's just planning on signing with Carolina in 2013 because his brother likes it there. It's apparently a very liveable area in North Carolina.

 

[Peter D.]

I don't understand that line of thinking. Why is he in a better position to succeed in Toronto? It's a worse team.

Don't get too hung up on the idea of Jordan Staal as a "3rd liner". His average ice times the last four years have been 19:51, 19:24, 21:21 and 20:03. Going elsewhere isn't going to increase his ice time much(he ranked 27th among forwards in the entire league) and outside of changing up his ratio of PP/PK time, which would strike me as diminishing his value, I don't see what the appeal is.

I mean, unless the argument is that Jordan Staal will be happier in a place where he's more of a big deal or where his personal stats look better, I really don't see what would be better for him in Toronto.

Well, isn't your last paragraph pretty much it?

Because if this was about being in the best position  to succeed from a team standpoint as you initially mention, I don't see how he could be foolish not to sign long-term, at good money, with his team that has arguably the league's two best players and who could/should legitimately contend for a Cup over the duration of the contract offered to him.

 

[Kin]

Well, isn't your last paragraph pretty much it?

Because if this was about being in the best position  to succeed from a team standpoint as you initially mention, I don't see how he could be foolish not to sign long-term, at good money, with his team that has arguably the league's two best players and who could/should legitimately contend for a Cup over the duration of the contract offered to him.

Well, and not to go too heavy into crusty old sportswriter mode here but if that argument holds then you're talking about a guy who thinks winning is less important than his own personal statistics which, if loud shouting morons on sports talk radio have taught me anything, makes him a terrible player unworthy of our affections.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'll be honest, it's not an idea that fills me with a ton of confidence. As good a player as Staal has been signing him to a very long term, high value contract strikes me as kind of crazy. He's never proven himself to be a #1 centre. Why would a team lock up #1 centre money in him for a long term before then?

I have felt the same way about him in the past, I just feel now that he has matured and had an extra gear last year. Plus, if he's motivated to be the big man on campus with a team, what better stage than Toronto? I think he'd find that extra gear if he got his wish.

I also think that if he was playing with Kessel and Lupul, he'd put up at least 20 extra points.

 

[Zee]

It's going to be tough to make that trade.  I still think he has his sights set on Carolina and playing with his brother.

As was said, if the problem is indeed that he wants to play a bigger role, rather than being behind better players, why would he leave to go and play behind his brother of all people?

That may be just speculation.  Maybe he doesn't like playing 3rd fiddle behind Crosby and Malkin but will be more than happy to be a good 1-2 punch with his brother.  I'd want to play with my brother if I could.  It's more of a motivation then it would be coming to the Leafs right now. 

 

[Kin]

I have felt the same way about him in the past, I just feel now that he has matured and had an extra gear last year. Plus, if he's motivated to be the big man on campus with a team, what better stage than Toronto? I think he'd find that extra gear if he got his wish.

I also think that if he was playing with Kessel and Lupul, he'd put up at least 20 extra points.

There's about three "ifs" too many in your post for me to feel like giving him a gigantic contract is in any team's best interests. If you're committing a huge contract to someone I think it's got to at least in part reflect what they've already shown they can do.

 

[Peter D.]

Well, and not to go too heavy into crusty old sportswriter mode here but if that argument holds then you're talking about a guy who thinks winning is less important than his own personal statistics which, if loud shouting morons on sports talk radio have taught me anything, makes him a terrible player unworthy of our affections.

While that may be true, he certainly isn't the first and definitely won't be the last player (especially someone as young as he is) who would rather have the chance to play a bigger role, even if it's on a lesser team. 

 

[Zee]

I have felt the same way about him in the past, I just feel now that he has matured and had an extra gear last year. Plus, if he's motivated to be the big man on campus with a team, what better stage than Toronto? I think he'd find that extra gear if he got his wish.

I also think that if he was playing with Kessel and Lupul, he'd put up at least 20 extra points.

There's about three "ifs" too many in your post for me to feel like giving him a gigantic contract is in any team's best interests. If you're committing a huge contract to someone I think it's got to at least in part reflect what they've already shown they can do.

Well his contract is up after next season so you could conceivably let him start the year with your club, and if he fits in and is lighting up the scoresheet then you work on an extension as the season progresses.  Provided there's no lockout of course.

 

[Kin]

While that may be true, he certainly isn't the first and definitely won't be the last player (especially someone as young as he is) who would rather have the chance to play a bigger role, even if it's on a lesser team.

But the issue there, again, is that his role in Pittsburgh isn't small(again, 27th in ATOI last year).

This isn't like Corey Schneider wanting to be a #1. Staal had the 16th highest ATOI for centres last year, more than Jason Spezza, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Sedin.

So, yeah, he may not be the first player who's all about himself but isn't that why you wouldn't want to invest in him for 8 or 10 years?

 

[Kin]

Well his contract is up after next season so you could conceivably let him start the year with your club, and if he fits in and is lighting up the scoresheet then you work on an extension as the season progresses.  Provided there's no lockout of course.

Sure and, to be clear, I'm not necessarily against trading for Jordan Staal. I just have absolutely no reason to think he'd be any more open to signing an extension here than he would be in Pittsburgh because, for what it's worth, I don't believe that he's as motivated by personal glory as others seem to.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

There's about three "ifs" too many in your post for me to feel like giving him a gigantic contract is in any team's best interests. If you're committing a huge contract to someone I think it's got to at least in part reflect what they've already shown they can do.

Well, it's not like we know that he in fact wouldn't sign a smaller deal, he may sign a different deal with another team.

 

[Zee]

Well his contract is up after next season so you could conceivably let him start the year with your club, and if he fits in and is lighting up the scoresheet then you work on an extension as the season progresses.  Provided there's no lockout of course.

Sure and, to be clear, I'm not necessarily against trading for Jordan Staal. I just have absolutely no reason to think he'd be any more open to signing an extension here than he would be in Pittsburgh because, for what it's worth, I don't believe that he's as motivated by personal glory as others seem to.

Yep, only he and his agent I suppose, know what his motivations are.  Everything else is just speculation.  Maybe he would like a long term deal with the Leafs, maybe not.  I just can't see it happening.

 

[Kin]

Well, it's not like we know that he in fact wouldn't sign a smaller deal, he may sign a different deal with another team.

He might think dirt clods taste like ice cream, sure, but I'm just responding to your suggestion that the guy Burke would be willing to bend on is the guy who hadn't earned it.