Laurence Gilman hired as AGM

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/999641644453347328

So I get the sense that this essentially replaces all of Dubas' previous responsibilities. Hunter's role was sorta two-fold: AGM and Head Scout. Pridham's promotion will cover Hunter's AGM responsibilities, so we just need to hire or promote someone to head scout now.

edit: or as birky put it:

https://twitter.com/b1rky/status/999644046535675905

This is hilarious on so many levels.  The news about Lamoriello and Hunter leaving was made official on what? Tuesday.  By Thursday we've already hired 2 AGMs.  Dubas ahead of the curve.

 

[herman]

Technology is at the point where reports are not in paper/pen notebooks; I'm pretty certain I've seen some other teams with in-house scouting report intranet programs where they just punch in their ratings and notes. Dubas sets the parameters for which player profiles are interesting, and I'm sure he will make his regular trips to the rink to see for himself, but scouting is largely a data collection exercise. I don't think a drop-in replacement for Hunter is necessary.

I'd be very surprised if somebody wasn't named director of amateur scouting, even if it's just an in-house promotion. They don't need to rush and get somebody in to work on this years draft, but at some point in the offseason yeah.

I think there will be more of a house cleaning there following the draft, as a lot of the new scouts were Hunter's people and would probably want to follow him after July 15.

 

[Zee]

This is a surprise, Steve Simmons pumping Mark Hunter's tires again...

https://twitter.com/simmonssteve/status/999643751327842304

 

[herman]

This is a surprise, Steve Simmons pumping Mark Hunter's tires again...

I read that as Mark Punter... so guess where the H went instead.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think there will be more of a house cleaning there following the draft, as a lot of the new scouts were Hunter's people and would probably want to follow him after July 15.

Maybe. I don't think there was really too many of them, just Hofford and Speltz I think. And being a director of regional scouting (East for Hofford, West for Speltz) for the Toronto Maple Leafs sounds like a pretty plum gig regardless of who's calling the shots, so I don't think them leaving would be guarantees.

 

[L K]

Hi everyone I know I'm doing a good job hiding it but I'm very excited about Dubas and this hire and the draft and this offseason.

Call me when he analytics us a Cup (hopefully in the next 3 years)

 

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/05/24/laurence-gilman-hired-as-assistant-general-manager-who-is-he-and-where-does-he-fit-with-the-leafs/

There's a video embedded of the Derek Roy trade call between Gilman (VAN), Frank Provenzano (DAL), and Brandon Pridham (NHL). It's not the most interesting video but it's more fun to me for the connections that have since happened (Provenzano and Gilman were both on Custance's podcast as guests, Pridham is Gilman's colleague now). I had also never heard Pridham speak before.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

It could be that he doesn't want the full responsibilities. Or, maybe he's excellent in a number of supporting areas, but has gaps in some of the key facets of the role of GM (like contract negotiations - or just direct negotiations in general). There could be a number of reasons. Sometimes, guys are just best suited to the AGM role instead, and want to stay in a role where they can shine rather than take on a larger role they (or others) don't think they'll successful in.

FYI: We don't know what position he was offered in Carolina - just that it was a front office position. There's some speculation it was also essentially an AGM type role.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

Even though he was relieved of his duties in 2015, his contract with the Canucks didn't expire until this past June and while I can't find anything concrete about it I've heard that Vancouver didn't give teams permission to talk to him about other jobs before that... which is obviously strange.

 

[herman]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

Even though he was relieved of his duties in 2015, his contract with the Canucks didn't expire until this past June and while I can't find anything concrete about it I've heard that Vancouver didn't give teams permission to talk to him about other jobs before that... which is obviously strange.

That's a poop emoji way to conduct business.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

Even though he was relieved of his duties in 2015, his contract with the Canucks didn't expire until this past June and while I can't find anything concrete about it I've heard that Vancouver didn't give teams permission to talk to him about other jobs before that... which is obviously strange.

That's a poop emoji way to conduct business.

A Canucks' logo would be a perfectly appropriate substitute.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Found something from a media member referencing it in 2016:

The Canucks still control former AGM Laurence Gilman.

As this story goes, it seems, the new Las Vegas team was interested in exploring a potential hire.

This seems logical and considering Las Vegas brought Gilman in as a consultant recently to go over their expansion draft blueprint, it  appears to check out.

Two different people in Penticton had a similarly curious tale of what happened.

Las Vegas asked the Canucks for permission to speak with Gilman but a response was delayed.

One person said it took 11 days for the Canucks to get back to Vegas, the other said it may have been more like two weeks, or more.

As it was explained to me, by the time the Canucks were ready to grant permission, Vegas had moved on.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-provies-your-first-2011-reference-how-willie-called-his-horvat-shot-and-updating-feuds

 

[herman]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish if he's wonderful with twenty years experience why isn't he a GM already? Carolina owner stuff notwithstanding.

It could be that he doesn't want the full responsibilities. Or, maybe he's excellent in a number of supporting areas, but has gaps in some of the key facets of the role of GM (like contract negotiations - or just direct negotiations in general). There could be a number of reasons. Sometimes, guys are just best suited to the AGM role instead, and want to stay in a role where they can shine rather than take on a larger role they (or others) don't think they'll successful in.

FYI: We don't know what position he was offered in Carolina - just that it was a front office position. There's some speculation it was also essentially an AGM type role.

Aside from Carlton's probable reason, Gilman (who I hadn't really heard of until yesterday but am now an expert on his life, times, and achievements) was always kind of seen by the hockey world as not the hockey guy, but still a useful exec. i.e. how MSM viewed Dubas as just the numbers guy.

From the aforementioned article from The Athletic:

Prior to his dismissal, Gilman forged a reputation as one of the league?s sharpest financial minds, though the ?capologist? label is one he disliked. There was a certain pigeonholing that came along with it. While the perception often worked in his favor ? folks around the league respected his ability to value players, negotiate contracts and navigate CBA complexities ? it also limited the scope of his executive ability. He was pegged as a numbers guy, one banging on a calculator in a widowless room in the back office.

Not exactly a hockey guy.

I think it bears repeating that a lot of the NHL is made up of people who have a limited scope of experience (i.e. played hockey through high school, skipped college/university for the career, and maybe jumped into coaching or management), fueled and fawned over by media and agents in a very small ecosystem.

 

[herman]

Found something from a media member referencing it in 2016:

The Canucks still control former AGM Laurence Gilman.

As this story goes, it seems, the new Las Vegas team was interested in exploring a potential hire.

This seems logical and considering Las Vegas brought Gilman in as a consultant recently to go over their expansion draft blueprint, it  appears to check out.

Two different people in Penticton had a similarly curious tale of what happened.

Las Vegas asked the Canucks for permission to speak with Gilman but a response was delayed.

One person said it took 11 days for the Canucks to get back to Vegas, the other said it may have been more like two weeks, or more.

As it was explained to me, by the time the Canucks were ready to grant permission, Vegas had moved on.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-provies-your-first-2011-reference-how-willie-called-his-horvat-shot-and-updating-feuds

Oh my.

Some months ago, I found a large bucket at work with the Canucks logo on it and converted it into a makeshift wastebasket because I needed one and thought it'd be funny. Now it is just sadly true.

 

[herman]

This also explains the mystery of last off-season of why the Vegas draft and the main thrust of their strategy in the expansion were such savvy moves. I thought it was largely McCrimmon's influence, but here we are.

 

[Zee]

This also explains the mystery of last off-season of why the Vegas draft and the main thrust of their strategy in the expansion were such savvy moves. I thought it was largely McCrimmon's influence, but here we are.

You're saying the guy that masterminded the Erat for Forsberg deal couldn't have built that Vegas roster on his own?

 

[Zee]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish

Wouldn't be the first time!  Ohhhhh nooooo I went there!!  ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[herman]

This also explains the mystery of last off-season of why the Vegas draft and the main thrust of their strategy in the expansion were such savvy moves. I thought it was largely McCrimmon's influence, but here we are.

You're saying the guy that masterminded the Erat for Forsberg deal couldn't have built that Vegas roster on his own?

Was that an outlier fueled by circumstance?

Or was it a long con to set himself up to a) be fired, b) nerf his former team when he faces them in the 2018 Cup finals

 

[ZBBM]

I don't know this guy but just to be a bit prickish

Wouldn't be the first time!  Ohhhhh nooooo I went there!!  ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

At least it's self-aware prickishness.