Leafs acquire Michael Grabner
- Thread starter LuncheonMeat
- Start date
cabber24 said:
I was thinking of the similarities between this coming season & that season, where we everyone thought we were going to finish in the bottom of the league & we finished 7th last. We had a new coach(Ron Wilson), a roster with no expectations. After an off-season where our best player left. It's like Deja Vu....
Redleaf
Active member
SO. Getting back to the matter at hand...
Losing Phil Kessel will stagnate this team... or even worse, cripple it further...
Have you considered that losing Kessel and his generally poor attitude, may actually be... wait for it... beneficial to the team?
What a crazy concept huh?
If we carry that a step further and... add a world class coach, who probably suggested getting rid of Phil in the 1st place so there wouldn't be a 'distraction' in teaching his team to listen and play both ends of the ice.. along with a GM that demands accountability.
Now, lets pretend for a second that the PTO's and Grabner were actually brought here to help this team win. I know its a stretch for some people....and maybe, just maybe... we end up with a different nucleus? a different team, and different outcome. I don't know. Call me crazy...
Losing Phil Kessel will stagnate this team... or even worse, cripple it further...
Have you considered that losing Kessel and his generally poor attitude, may actually be... wait for it... beneficial to the team?
What a crazy concept huh?
If we carry that a step further and... add a world class coach, who probably suggested getting rid of Phil in the 1st place so there wouldn't be a 'distraction' in teaching his team to listen and play both ends of the ice.. along with a GM that demands accountability.
Now, lets pretend for a second that the PTO's and Grabner were actually brought here to help this team win. I know its a stretch for some people....and maybe, just maybe... we end up with a different nucleus? a different team, and different outcome. I don't know. Call me crazy...
Andy007
Active member
Kessel doesn't give insightful interviews. And he got annoyed a few times because he (and his team) were being repeatedly trashed by the media about hockey and non-hockey instances. Yep, dressing room cancer that caused all of his teammates to give up and play bad.
But yeah, take away the only bonafide 1st line player the team has/had and sprinkle in a few veteran players who finish their body checks and just rake in all of that "beneficial" change!! I hope we get some great Daniel Winnick interviews because that will definitely inspire his teammates to play harder.
But yeah, take away the only bonafide 1st line player the team has/had and sprinkle in a few veteran players who finish their body checks and just rake in all of that "beneficial" change!! I hope we get some great Daniel Winnick interviews because that will definitely inspire his teammates to play harder.
Kin
New member
RedLeaf said:
I think it would be largely impossible for someone to have been a Leafs fan the last few years and not have considered that hot take.
It's been considered and largely rejected.
RedLeaf said:
The reason that's a stretch is because the actual facts of the matter don't support that. If players like Boyes and Glencross were viewed as pieces that could really help a ridiculously talent shy team win and, more to the point, that they wanted them to help the team win then why would they wait until September to bring them in? Why wouldn't they have actually tried to sign them as free agents? Every day that Boyes and Glencross were available they could have been signed by anyone, why would you risk that if you thought they could be important pieces of a winning team? The Leafs had a ton of salary cap room.
And think about that for a second. The guys we're talking about are guys that any team in the league could have signed, teams with legitimate aspirations for winning...and nobody signed them. Not for the league minimum which probably could have landed either guy.
The guys you're making a big deal of are players that nobody else wanted. Suggesting they're going to have a transformative impact on a team that is operating with a massive talent deficit, well, it deserves the responses you've gotten.
hockeyfan1
New member
Both the Leafs and the Islanders freed up cap space, which is good and was needed. Who wins the deal? The Leafs. Just how those five players -- Beck, Nillson, Verhaeghe, Finn, Gibson -- will be assets for the Islarders behooves anyone.
It was more or less a salary dump for both teams, pure, plain & simple.
Now, for differing viewpoints, here are two:
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2015/9/17/9348451/michael-grabner-trade-contract-flexibility-cba
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2015/9/17/9348499/islanders-grabner-trade-leafs-prospect-analysis-beck-verheaghe-finn-gibson-nilsson
It was more or less a salary dump for both teams, pure, plain & simple.
Now, for differing viewpoints, here are two:
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2015/9/17/9348451/michael-grabner-trade-contract-flexibility-cba
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2015/9/17/9348499/islanders-grabner-trade-leafs-prospect-analysis-beck-verheaghe-finn-gibson-nilsson
Redleaf, who do you see in the league's bottom-5 then? I've given you Arizona, Carolina, and New Jersey already. So who else will be worse than the Leafs next season? Genuinely asking.
Redleaf
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Who could genuinely answer that question, without guessing? Edmonton could still be crappy, Buffalo may not improve as much as they'd like. Too many variables and unknowns right now. But every year, out of nowhere, there seem to be a few teams that under achieve and settle lower in the standings than anticipated.
Why is it so inconceivable that this Leafs team could be better than 5 other teams? Surprises happen every year in the NHL. I genuinely think this team could surprise some people.
Funny thing is, I hope I'm wrong, because finishing in no mans land is exactly what we DON'T want this team to do this year.
RedLeaf said:
I honestly don't understand your stance here. You're demanding facts and evidence for why people think that the Leafs are going to be a bottom-5 team. Most of us are using last seasons finish and the fact that our team arguably got worse while teams below us last season got better as that type of evidence. You can point out any roster other than the 3 teams that I've mentioned (2 of which I still think the Leafs can potentially be worse than) and I'd be able to state exactly why I think that they're a better team than Toronto. Your "facts" and "evidence" comes down to well anything can happen!.
But yeah, we're the ones who are out there on this topic.
bustaheims
Active member
RedLeaf said:
It is a crazy concept. Kessel was well like by his teammates, and players and coaches alike often called him one of the most competitive people on the team/that they knew. The whole "poor attitude" thing is a narrative created by people on the outside, looking in. So, yeah, citing something that those who would have been impacted by have soundly dismissed? Crazy.
RedLeaf said:
I think you're attaching way to much to coaching and other off ice influences. Firstly, the impetus to move Kessel came long before Babcock was hired. Secondly, even the best coach in the world can only do so much with a talent poor roster, which is exactly what the Leafs have.
RedLeaf said:
Other people have covered this point well, but, at the end of the day, it still comes back to talent, and the team has less of it this season than they did last season. The veterans were brought in to help the team compete, sure. They were brought in so that the prospects wouldn't have to be rushed and so the team wouldn't be embarrassed on a nightly basis. But, they're still mostly 3rd and 4th line talents. They're roster filler. Depth guys. They're great pieces to have when you have the top end guys, but in Toronto, they're going to be expected to be the top end guys, and that's a recipe for failure, which is exactly what the team likely wants to cook up.