Leafs @ Canucks - Mar. 14th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050

[CarltonTheBear]

@

27-36-6, 60 pts | 38-25-4, 80 pts

Projected Lines

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel JVR-Holland-Panik     Komarov-Smith-Booth    Sill-Kadri-Kozun Gardiner-Phaneuf Brewer-Rielly MacWilliam-Brennan Bernier ​

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian Matthias-Bonino-Vbrata Higgins-Richardson-Burrows Dorsett-Horvat-Hansen Edler-Tanev Hamhuis-Bieksa Stanton-Weber Lack​

Scratches

Tim Erixon Joakim Lindstrom ​

Adam Clendening Brandon McMillan Linden Vey Lucas Sbisa Ronalds Kenins​

Game Notes

TOR
?Bernier will start for the Leafs
?Kadri is expected to rejoin the line-up, I'm guessing they might start him on L4, but we'll have to obviously wait and see there
?Chance that Erixon gets inserted back into the line-up for somebody as well

VAN
?Lack will start for the Canucks
?The Canucks are expected to get a few injured bodies back for this one: Bieksa, Higgins, Richardson, Weber

Injuries

?Roman Polak - Hernia - Out for season     ?Stephane Robidas - Shoulder - Out for season​

?Yannick Weber - Upper Body - Probable Saturday ?Chris Higgins - Lower Body - Probable Saturday ?Kevin Bieksa - Hand - Probable Saturday ?Ryan Miller - Knee - Injured Reserve ?Brad Richardson - Ankle - Probable Saturday​

Stream Options

http://www.reddit.com/r/NHLstreams
http://vaughnlive.tv/leafstreamer
http://ourleafs.blogspot.ca/
​

 

[Frank E]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank. 

 

[Rebel_1812]

should be easy loss for the leafs and a step closer to high draft city.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

The Marlies play the Flames tonight at the same time, I'm pretty torn about which game to watch.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

See, that's mostly how I saw his performance, leaving Hudler alone in front aside. I don't know if it's misguided announcers harping on the minority of his play that is shaping people's perception of his game.

I understand the team is awful right now, but the joy that some people seem to be taking at being mindlessly, relentlessly negative is so beyond me.

This place is trending that way too a little bit, when the team was on a win streak earlier in the year this place was pretty quiet. It now seems that there is a lot more activity here and a lot of it is the same group who just shit on absolutely everything for the sake of it.

There is no doubt cause for negativity, but it should at least be reasonable.

 

[L K]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

See, that's mostly how I saw his performance, leaving Hudler alone in front aside. I don't know if it's misguided announcers harping on the minority of his play that is shaping people's perception of his game.

I understand the team is awful right now, but the joy that some people seem to be taking at being mindlessly, relentlessly negative is so beyond me.

This place is trending that way too a little bit, when the team was on a win streak earlier in the year this place was pretty quiet. It now seems that there is a lot more activity here and a lot of it is the same group who just shit on absolutely everything for the sake of it.

There is no doubt cause for negativity, but it should at least be reasonable.

I think part of Gardiner's issue is that he seems to have a decent number of costly mistakes that wind up as good scoring chances or goals against.  And because he's not having a stellar offensive season his positive contributions are more in the way of carrying the puck well. 

The announcers see Gardiner skate the puck into the offensive zone and then either lose it and put it into a corner after already gaining the zone.  They then criticize him for turning the puck over.  Meanwhile they will then go and praise Eric Brewer for getting just past center ice and firing the puck in to the offensive zone.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

See, that's mostly how I saw his performance, leaving Hudler alone in front aside. I don't know if it's misguided announcers harping on the minority of his play that is shaping people's perception of his game.

I understand the team is awful right now, but the joy that some people seem to be taking at being mindlessly, relentlessly negative is so beyond me.

This place is trending that way too a little bit, when the team was on a win streak earlier in the year this place was pretty quiet. It now seems that there is a lot more activity here and a lot of it is the same group who just shit on absolutely everything for the sake of it.

There is no doubt cause for negativity, but it should at least be reasonable.

I think part of Gardiner's issue is that he seems to have a decent number of costly mistakes that wind up as good scoring chances or goals against.  And because he's not having a stellar offensive season his positive contributions are more in the way of carrying the puck well. 

The announcers see Gardiner skate the puck into the offensive zone and then either lose it and put it into a corner after already gaining the zone.  They then criticize him for turning the puck over.  Meanwhile they will then go and praise Eric Brewer for getting just past center ice and firing the puck in to the offensive zone.

I also find someone like Polak will elicit a lot more praise/less criticism because of the 'style' he plays, even if he is on for more chances against and less chances for, and his mistakes won't be harped on to the same degree - because he hits, and has that "tough" mentality that Canadian announcers/fans love.

I think there's an obsession with the "big" mistake when the team should be looking far beyond individual goals against in a game.  Gardiner has a style that the team should be trying to build around others playing like.

 

[Chris]

Interesting chart. Sort of matches my thoughts after the game (didn't think Rielly, Lupul or McWilliam were very good). Didn't realize Gardiner was so effective, will be watching him more closely in upcoming games.

I think  at this point in the season he needs to be allowed to work on developing those offensive skills, and should be encouraged to take chances (what is there to lose). That doesn't mean completely neglect his defensive responsibilities, he obviously has work to do there. But I do feel his offensive game suffered somewhat under Carlyle and he needs to regain his confidence.

 

[L K]

It wouldn't hurt if he didn't have a 2.2% shooting percentage this year either.  His career average is 6% and before this year it was 7.5%.

Ideally we manage to draft that big physical guy who has more Gardiner style mobility to anchor the defense in the next few years.  I know we disagree on Phaneuf but mobility is a big part of the reason why I find he failed in that role.  Obviously the supporting cast wasn't there either but Phaneuf just doesn't have that added oomph to be that guy all by himself in the way that a Pronger could change the entire nature of a teams defensive unit.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

So basically you don't want to be Joe Colborne or Mason Raymond? 

BTW, that graph reminds me of Tempest, an old 80s video game from Atari.

 

[Frank E]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

See, that's mostly how I saw his performance, leaving Hudler alone in front aside. I don't know if it's misguided announcers harping on the minority of his play that is shaping people's perception of his game.

I understand the team is awful right now, but the joy that some people seem to be taking at being mindlessly, relentlessly negative is so beyond me.

This place is trending that way too a little bit, when the team was on a win streak earlier in the year this place was pretty quiet. It now seems that there is a lot more activity here and a lot of it is the same group who just shit on absolutely everything for the sake of it.

There is no doubt cause for negativity, but it should at least be reasonable.

I think part of Gardiner's issue is that he seems to have a decent number of costly mistakes that wind up as good scoring chances or goals against.  And because he's not having a stellar offensive season his positive contributions are more in the way of carrying the puck well. 

The announcers see Gardiner skate the puck into the offensive zone and then either lose it and put it into a corner after already gaining the zone.  They then criticize him for turning the puck over.  Meanwhile they will then go and praise Eric Brewer for getting just past center ice and firing the puck in to the offensive zone.

Just in my defense, all I saw was the highlights, and I stated so in my initial post.  This isn't in reference to LK's post, more to Patrick's.

If he played a great game other than a couple of boners I saw on the highlights, then great.  I don't generally pile on guys, and I have higher expectations of a $4 million dollar Gardiner than the ELC $ Gardiner...as we all should.  He just hasn't got it together this year, but maybe he'll have a better run next year.  And just so I'm clear, the isn't in reference to last night's game.

I actually like what he brings on the positive puck possession game, I just so want him to figure out the defensive positioning and anticipation.  He does make his fair share of highlight reel screw ups, but he can sure skate the puck into the o-zone nicely. 

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

See, that's mostly how I saw his performance, leaving Hudler alone in front aside. I don't know if it's misguided announcers harping on the minority of his play that is shaping people's perception of his game.

I understand the team is awful right now, but the joy that some people seem to be taking at being mindlessly, relentlessly negative is so beyond me.

This place is trending that way too a little bit, when the team was on a win streak earlier in the year this place was pretty quiet. It now seems that there is a lot more activity here and a lot of it is the same group who just shit on absolutely everything for the sake of it.

There is no doubt cause for negativity, but it should at least be reasonable.

I think part of Gardiner's issue is that he seems to have a decent number of costly mistakes that wind up as good scoring chances or goals against.  And because he's not having a stellar offensive season his positive contributions are more in the way of carrying the puck well. 

The announcers see Gardiner skate the puck into the offensive zone and then either lose it and put it into a corner after already gaining the zone.  They then criticize him for turning the puck over.  Meanwhile they will then go and praise Eric Brewer for getting just past center ice and firing the puck in to the offensive zone.

Just in my defense, all I saw was the highlights, and I stated so in my initial post.  This isn't in reference to LK's post, more to Patrick's.

If he played a great game other than a couple of boners I saw on the highlights, then great.  I don't generally pile on guys, and I have higher expectations of a $4 million dollar Gardiner than the ELC $ Gardiner...as we all should.  He just hasn't got it together this year, but maybe he'll have a better run next year.  And just so I'm clear, the isn't in reference to last night's game.

I actually like what he brings on the positive puck possession game, I just so want him to figure out the defensive positioning and anticipation.  He does make his fair share of highlight reel screw ups, but he can sure skate the puck into the o-zone nicely.

I understand your point, I really get that it's pull your hair out frustrating when you see him flub things in the defensive zone.

My question is though, if the numbers show him having a hugely positive impact on the teams ability to generate offense at what point does he get more of a pass?

I get that a guy like Polak is hard to play against in his own end etc, but if the team is forced defend with him on the ice, but can attack with Gardiner on the ice, at what point do you have to give Gardiner some slack?

I know people want him to be better in his own end, but let's be honest, if he was good in his own end too he'd likely be making close to double what he does now.

I'm not sure people really grasp the very basics of possession metrics, over an entire season, the team will almost certainly score significantly more with Gardiner on the ice than it will concede.

 

[Frank E]

RE: Patrick's post

I think what might be at issue is a trust factor with the coach in terms of letting him do his thing when you're close or down.  But when you're up, he's not a go-to guy.  I remember watching some d-men like that, the PP specialist kind of d-men, and I just really want for Gardiner to not be one of those guys. 

He's right on the edge of being too old to be "developing" in a prospect sense, and I really want him to make the defensive improvements to his game that could lead to a top-pairing kind of skill set.  I guess we'll see if he makes the step.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Looks like Holland comes out for Kadri, apparently hurt his leg last night.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Leaf lines in Van:
Panik-bozak-Kessel
Jvr-Kadri-Booth
Komarov-smith-lupul
Lindstrom-sill-Kozun
#TMLtalk

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Leaf lines in Van:
Panik-bozak-Kessel
Jvr-Kadri-Booth
Komarov-smith-lupul
Lindstrom-sill-Kozun
#TMLtalk

Wow, what a lineup. 

 

[freer]

What a lazy play by Gardiner

 

[L K]

Looks like Horachek isn't done sending a message to Kadri.  He's dead last in ice-time.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I'm just referring to the highlights I saw of last night's game this morning...Gardiner on the top paring?  That's all-out full tank.

Shot attempts at even strength when Gardiner was on the ice last night were 27-9 Leafs.  NHL's stats have him with 0 giveaways and 2 takeaways in the game.

Here's a graph of every player in that game (for you old people, that's Gardiner on the far right):

Ideally you'd like to be lower on the vertical axis and farther to the right on the horizontal axis.  Maybe there were some psychedelics in your morning coffee?

Does your graph show all the defensive mistakes, giveaways, bad zone coverage that leads to goals?  Because he always seems to be the guy that makes the mistake.  If your graph doesn't show that, then it doesn't show the important stuff.