Leafs Draft 21st Overall - Overall Draft Order

[Jalili]

So McKinnon goes 1st overall. I'm not surprised. He is a phenomenal player and I'm glad he's going out west to be honest. IMO a smart move by the Avs to not take Jones, based on history of d-men taken 1st overall not living up to expectations. 

Jones at #2 is pretty likely and makes sense for organizational need in FLA too.

It's smart and it's not letting sentimentality get in the way of business. Drafting Jones makes for a nice story but MacKinnon is closer to being a sure thing.

 

[Corn Flake]

So McKinnon goes 1st overall. I'm not surprised. He is a phenomenal player and I'm glad he's going out west to be honest. IMO a smart move by the Avs to not take Jones, based on history of d-men taken 1st overall not living up to expectations. 

Jones at #2 is pretty likely and makes sense for organizational need in FLA too.

It's smart and it's not letting sentimentality get in the way of business. Drafting Jones makes for a nice story but MacKinnon is closer to being a sure thing.

Yep. I think McKinnon is another Tavares only his skating at this stage is far better than JT was. He will also have more talent around him starting out than JT did too.  I think he hits 75+ points in year 2.

 

[ZBBM]

Seems like a strange thing to announce even if you know it's true. I mean, if you really wanted your first choice of forwards but had the #1 pick wouldn't you at least feign that you hadn't made up your mind to see and explore if the #2 team wanted Jones?

Not just seems, is.  Snoop's suggestion is at least plausible, but if that's why they did it then it's a sign that Sakic & Co. are not ready for prime time.  There is no compelling reason why you should tip your hand when you're in the driver's seat.  Any negotiating bluffs they may want to make would be more effectively made in private talks with other GMs.

This is really Mouseketeer-level "management."

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Interesting. Would this make Stastny available? Could we look to trade a d-man (or two) as part of a package for him?

 

[Jalili]

Interesting. Would this make Stastny available? Could we look to trade a d-man (or two) as part of a package for him?

You would have to think that it does.

The one deal that makes sense to me is Gunnarsson+ for Stastny, but I'm not sure if that's a deal I would make because it takes too much out of our blueline.

 

[mr grieves]

Interesting. Would this make Stastny available? Could we look to trade a d-man (or two) as part of a package for him?

You would have to think that it does.

The one deal that makes sense to me is Gunnarsson+ for Stastny, but I'm not sure if that's a deal I would make because it takes too much out of our blueline.

Well, the Leafs have a top four of Phaneuf, Gunnarson, Franson, and Gardiner. I like each of those players, more or less, but I don't think they complement each other ideally. In principle, wouldn't mind parting with one of them if it were to bring in a top-six center and there was a plan to acquire a top four with something the four we've got don't have (increased steadiness in his own zone, serious playoff experience, etc.).

 

[Kin]

Well, the Leafs have a top four of Phaneuf, Gunnarson, Franson, and Gardiner. I like each of those players, more or less, but I don't think they complement each other ideally. In principle, wouldn't mind parting with one of them if it were to bring in a top-six center and there was a plan to acquire a top four with something the four we've got don't have (increased steadiness in his own zone, serious playoff experience, etc.).

Problem is that of the four the only realistic trade chip is Gunnar and it seems like you'd need a pretty substantial addition to be able to build a trade package around him.

 

[mr grieves]

Well, the Leafs have a top four of Phaneuf, Gunnarson, Franson, and Gardiner. I like each of those players, more or less, but I don't think they complement each other ideally. In principle, wouldn't mind parting with one of them if it were to bring in a top-six center and there was a plan to acquire a top four with something the four we've got don't have (increased steadiness in his own zone, serious playoff experience, etc.).

Problem is that of the four the only realistic trade chip is Gunnar and it seems like you'd need a pretty substantial addition to be able to build a trade package around him.

Why wouldn't Franson or Gardiner be a possible trade chip? Both are RFAs and one of them might be made redundant by Rielly in the next 2 or 3 years. They're also the sort of defensemen that tend to be overvalued as UFAs or on the trade market.

 

[Kin]

Well, the Leafs have a top four of Phaneuf, Gunnarson, Franson, and Gardiner. I like each of those players, more or less, but I don't think they complement each other ideally. In principle, wouldn't mind parting with one of them if it were to bring in a top-six center and there was a plan to acquire a top four with something the four we've got don't have (increased steadiness in his own zone, serious playoff experience, etc.).

Problem is that of the four the only realistic trade chip is Gunnar and it seems like you'd need a pretty substantial addition to be able to build a trade package around him.

Why wouldn't Franson or Gardiner be a possible trade chip? Both are RFAs and one of them might be made redundant by Rielly in the next 2 or 3 years. They're also the sort of defensemen that tend to be overvalued as UFAs or on the trade market.

No, you're right. I don't know why but I had Franson in my head as a UFA. He'd definitely be a possibility. I think the organization is too high on Gardiner though to trade him because someone might make him redundant in two or three years.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

 

[Kin]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny. 

 

[Champ Kind]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny.

I think the AVs would jump at Franson + the 2013 first round pick.  On the other hand, if I'm Nonis I don't make that deal for a $6.6M centre who's underperformed in a year where the cap is dropping 10%.

 

[Redleaf]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny.

I think the AVs would jump at Franson + the 2013 first round pick.  On the other hand, if I'm Nonis I don't make that deal for a $6.6M centre who's underperformed in a year where the cap is dropping 10%.

The valuation on Franson has to be made very carefully by Leaf brass before hanging him out for trade. The big question in my mind is, was last season an anomaly for him or a stepping stone? He certainly outperformed all expectations placed on him prior to the regular season, and then excelled even further in the seven-game playoff series against the Bruins. I'd be skeptical about trading him before we find out what his ceiling really is.

 

[lamajama]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny.

I think the AVs would jump at Franson + the 2013 first round pick.  On the other hand, if I'm Nonis I don't make that deal for a $6.6M centre who's underperformed in a year where the cap is dropping 10%.

i don't see any deal short of a low end draft pick and middling prospect for
an over-paid and declining player.

 

[louisstamos]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny.

I think the AVs would jump at Franson + the 2013 first round pick.  On the other hand, if I'm Nonis I don't make that deal for a $6.6M centre who's underperformed in a year where the cap is dropping 10%.

i don't see any deal short of a low end draft pick and middling prospect for
an over-paid and declining player.

While I don't think the Avs will give him away, I agree with this.  If anything, I think some salary would have go back the other way.  Something to the effect of Liles, Percy + 2nd rounder for Stastny.

 

[mr grieves]

Would Franson, our 2013 first round pick (or second plus lesser prospect) and the rights to Bozak be fair for Stastny? Figure that it gives the Avs a chance to upgrade their D and prospect pool while at least giving the option to replace Stastny for a year while waiting for prospects to develop.

Well, keeping in mind trades typically aren't about what's "fair" and more whether or not it's the best deal a team can make, I'd be surprised if Colorado would lean at that kind of a trade because Franson could ask for a lot of money and we know that Bozak is looking to cash in so the idea of adding them both probably means that Colorado would be adding payroll which is not what I think they want out of trading Stastny.

I think the AVs would jump at Franson + the 2013 first round pick.  On the other hand, if I'm Nonis I don't make that deal for a $6.6M centre who's underperformed in a year where the cap is dropping 10%.

i don't see any deal short of a low end draft pick and middling prospect for
an over-paid and declining player.

While I don't think the Avs will give him away, I agree with this.  If anything, I think some salary would have go back the other way.  Something to the effect of Liles, Percy + 2nd rounder for Stastny.

Whether you believe it's his skills that are declining or his place in the line-up is probably what will determine whether you'd want to trade for him at all.

And, even then, the contract is an issue. There's only a year left, so he might be a pricey rental... Or the Leafs would make the trade because Stastny's thought to be a long-term solution to the #1C, in which case the next contract is an issue. Can he be re-signed? Will his presence work with Grabbo and Kadri already down the middle?

From Colorado's perspective, I wonder how simple it is. He's on a big contract, and he seems not to be in the team's plans... But, with the coaching change, that might change somewhat. 

 

[Corn Flake]

When is the last time the Leafs have had this many of their own picks, and a pick in every single round?  Only the 4th pick was moved in the Lombardi deal but they have a 4th back in the Beauchemin deal.

Trippy, and a sign of philosophical change.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

When is the last time the Leafs have had this many of their own picks, and a pick in every single round?  Only the 4th pick was moved in the Lombardi deal but they have a 4th back in the Beauchemin deal.

Trippy, and a sign of philosophical change.

I was curious, 1998 was the last year they had a pick in every round. Although they would have had a pick in every round in 2011 but they traded their 2nd to move up in the 1st round (where they picked twice). And of course there's no guarantee that they'll end up picking in every round this year.

edit: With the exception of 2006 (and the recent years that can't be judged yet) the Leafs have had some pretty terrible drafts in the past decade. It's funny seeing so many names that we were excited about. Kukumberg was going to be such a steal.

 

[bustaheims]

edit: With the exception of 2006 (and the recent years that can't be judged yet) the Leafs have had some pretty terrible drafts in the past decade. It's funny seeing so many names that we were excited about. Kukumberg was going to be such a steal.

2008 looked like it was going to be huge for the team. Hayes, Stefanovich, Champagne and Flaake were all supposed to be huge steals. Not so much for that, huh?

 

[Deebo]

I was pretty excited about Sondre Olden.