bustaheims
Active member
Damian said:
In terms of P%, they were already there before tonight's game.
Leafs @ Lightning - Dec. 29th, 7:30pm - SNO, Fan 590
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
In terms of P%, they were already there before tonight's game.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
moon111 said:
This is a good way to demonstrate that you're not a professional athlete.
pnjunction
New member
Lost 5 of 6 since the hot streak...the 18 wheeler powered up the hill by opportune scoring and Bernier has broken through the guard rails and is heading for the edge.
ZBBM
Active member
And from Siegel:
TAMPA ? This is who the Leafs are.
For all the talk of change and the need for it in recent weeks or the hope for change that a revamped coaching staff and roster brought with it in the fall, this club essentially embodies all the same flawed elements as years past.
Nothing has changed. And with the midway point of the season just over a week away, it's pretty safe to assume that not much will change or change substantially enough to matter.
This is a middle of the road hockey club, one that may challenge and even qualify for a playoff position this season. But also one that remains fatally flawed in the bigger picture of Stanley Cup contention with a troubled core that's locked up long-term.
...
One night aside, the challenge for team president Brendan Shanahan in the weeks, months and years ahead is to determine how much of what ails the club is tied to Carlyle and a system and message that hasn't taken and how much is tied to a roster built on the stilts of a truly flawed core, led by Phaneuf and Phil Kessel.
Nothing new here.
TAMPA ? This is who the Leafs are.
For all the talk of change and the need for it in recent weeks or the hope for change that a revamped coaching staff and roster brought with it in the fall, this club essentially embodies all the same flawed elements as years past.
Nothing has changed. And with the midway point of the season just over a week away, it's pretty safe to assume that not much will change or change substantially enough to matter.
This is a middle of the road hockey club, one that may challenge and even qualify for a playoff position this season. But also one that remains fatally flawed in the bigger picture of Stanley Cup contention with a troubled core that's locked up long-term.
...
One night aside, the challenge for team president Brendan Shanahan in the weeks, months and years ahead is to determine how much of what ails the club is tied to Carlyle and a system and message that hasn't taken and how much is tied to a roster built on the stilts of a truly flawed core, led by Phaneuf and Phil Kessel.
Nothing new here.
bustaheims
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I still want to believe that this is all part of a plan. Suck this year to get a good pick in a really good draft. Trade away a bunch of players at the deadline for picks/prospects. Clean house in terms of the coach and GM. Start real vision in summer 2015.
herman
Well-known member
bustaheims said:
This was my belief from the previous preseason when Nonis/Carlyle kept their jobs (and got extended), but had their support structures stripped away. They're meat shields for the new management signings and a way for them to assess the players in the fold.
The run of wins was a tease of the talent we have in our stable, but not a reliable indicator of long term success.
bustaheims
Active member
herman said:
Yeah. The way this offseason played out really kind of screamed "transitional season." Replace all the assistant coaches and everyone in the front office other than the GM? That's the beginning of something, not the entirety of it. Nonis and Carlyle were given one more season to show Shanahan they were worth holding on to - and, it's kind of win-win for him. If they make the playoffs, it looks like a good move; if they play like they have for most of the season, they get a good pick and both can be fired without Shanahan (or anyone else) feeling like he didn't take enough time to properly assess things without making a major decision.
Kin
New member
bustaheims said:
But aren't we sort of seeing the the downside to the supposed win-win? The Leafs could very well eke out a playoff spot this year. Unless Shanahan is willing to fire Carlyle after getting an 8 seed then assuming the general position is as you say and they're not generally ok with the team as it's playing then this year could easily result in Carlyle buying himself time while the team's fundamental problems are unresolved.
Highlander
Active member
Agreed with Herman on his assessment. Go back to our earlier conversations and observations from Cathal Kelley. Shanaplan is not going to fire Carlisle unless they go on a 10-15 game losing streak. If there is a change then Horacheck and Spott will take over intererm. The one we call Babc__k is part of the future plan, so Shanny is sitting tight and staying quiet. I feel very good with the additons we have made to management, Dubois, Hunter, etc.
The pieces are being put in place. I said months ago if we made the first round great but more than likely this is the stasis period, they will play some great games, get a few winning streaks, a lot of mediocre games and some real stinkers. Seems to be playing out this way. After 58 years as a Leaf fan I actually feel more optimisitic for the future than in years. Starting with next season with a new coach and a few other changes and additions. In the meantime I have an order in for more valium
The pieces are being put in place. I said months ago if we made the first round great but more than likely this is the stasis period, they will play some great games, get a few winning streaks, a lot of mediocre games and some real stinkers. Seems to be playing out this way. After 58 years as a Leaf fan I actually feel more optimisitic for the future than in years. Starting with next season with a new coach and a few other changes and additions. In the meantime I have an order in for more valium
I'm not sure what shanahan Has shown or down to demonstrate that he has a plan or knows what he's doing. He has absolutely no experiencing running a franchise. This whole 'sit back and wait' for the reveal of his master plan is not sitting well with me.
I'm not being impatient, I'm not demanding action or anything, I'm just not optimistic.
I'm not being impatient, I'm not demanding action or anything, I'm just not optimistic.
Kin
New member
Joe S. said:
Yeah, there are multiple problems with that narrative as well. If this was just a season for assessment, why not assess the assistant coaches and GMs as well? What insight did Shanahan have on the inner workings of the club that could tell him that those guys needed to get fired but not the guys in charge? The way he did it he's going to be faced with a situation where, if he does fire Carlyle and Nonis, he's going to be bringing in people who either won't get to choose their own support staff or he'll have to fire the guys he just hired.
Britishbulldog
Active member
bustaheims said:
This is EXACTLY how I was hoping this year was going to play out as well although I am very uncharacteristically pessimistic.
2 things that bother me with the Leafs is Lewieke getting out because he alleges that the ownership Board was dysfunctional PLUS who the Leafs were willing to sign long term when the players had obvious flaws.
I know it might sound cheesy but it is accurate to say 'good enough is the enemy of best'. Just because Kessel and Phaneuf were the Leafs best forward and defense man, a person doesn't automatically assume they are who you build on. Nonis seemed to though. He did it with the 2nd highest paid forward Clarkson as well. Clarkson might have been the most coveted forward of the UFA class but when you are in a capped spending system you must remain patient. I remember Nik commented in those terms if Phaneuf should be signed or not back before Phaneuf was extended.
Lastly, there are a few teams who have made it to the Finals more than once in the 'cap era' and they include Chicago, Detroit, LA, Boston and Pittsburgh. Although their style of play is all different the one thing they have in common is their core were all drafted with a few UFA signings and trades. The Leafs this season typically only have 3 drafted players in the lineup: Kadri, Komarov and Rielly. I believe we had a game this year when Bernier was in goal instead of Reimer when the 19 players hit the ice, the Leafs only had one of them as a Leaf draft pick...Kadri.
So yeah, I would love to see a house cleaning with the coach, GM and players (Kessel, Clarkson, Phaneuf and Reimer) for draft picks/young assets.
L K
Active member
bustaheims said:
The problem being that the Leafs have way too much talent to be in that elite class of awfulness. The Leafs even with their current level of play will likely be in the 6-10th spot in the East by the end of the year. Their goaltenders are too good, and they have enough offense sitting in their top 6 that can score enough to win games. Where the problems partially lie is in how the team is being used.
The analytics for the last 30 games suggest Kadri should be the #1 center at 5 on 5. He's not.
The analytics suggest that the Kessel-Bozak combo should play less at 5on5. They don't.
The analytics suggest the 2nd PP unit needs to be burned alive. Carlyle still uses Clarkson.
The analytics still seem to be something that aren't being used to adjust the usage of the team and to me, that all stems back to Carlyle. Just a week ago he had a quote stating that the team needs to dump and get on the puck. He's advocating for a system that turns the puck over...with a team that has shown that it isn't capable of winning puck battles. That's just asinine when you try and run a system that the team inherently can't handle.
It's also a system that is going the way of the dodo bird with the other 29 teams.
bustaheims
Active member
L K said:
We said similar things about the team last season, and they ended up with the 8th overall pick. Their numbers this season are starting to trend right back towards those from last season, so, a similar result shouldn't be unexpected - especially if they actually move bodies out at the trade deadline this season. If they keep playing the calibre of hockey they have in recent weeks, they won't be in a position where they can really justify not doing so. They may not be able to get top 5 pick bad, but, with the quality of this year's draft class, they can probably still pick up a top-end talent inside the top 8 or so.