Leafs @ sens - Oct. 12th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[Frank E]

Babcock could be preserving Rielly for shutdown and PK minutes. Each player probably has a minutes range he wants to hit per game that will ramp up later. A #1 should be playing all situations, but I think Babcock is using Rielly as a 1a/b with Gardiner (22 min each instead of one getting 27-30).

Maybe Rielly didn't bring it at camp, and Babcock is just being Babcock and not handing him a job he didn't earn.

 

[Kin]

Babcock could be preserving Rielly for shutdown and PK minutes. Each player probably has a minutes range he wants to hit per game that will ramp up later. A #1 should be playing all situations, but I think Babcock is using Rielly as a 1a/b with Gardiner (22 min each instead of one getting 27-30).

Maybe Rielly didn't bring it at camp, and Babcock is just being Babcock and not handing him a job he didn't earn.

That'd be a pretty crazy way to judge a player coming off a pretty solid World Cup.

 

[disco]

Don't think I've been this excited for the start of a season COMBINED with a simultaneous deep Blue Jay playoff run since 1994 

 

[Frank E]

Babcock could be preserving Rielly for shutdown and PK minutes. Each player probably has a minutes range he wants to hit per game that will ramp up later. A #1 should be playing all situations, but I think Babcock is using Rielly as a 1a/b with Gardiner (22 min each instead of one getting 27-30).

Maybe Rielly didn't bring it at camp, and Babcock is just being Babcock and not handing him a job he didn't earn.

That'd be a pretty crazy way to judge a player coming off a pretty solid World Cup.

It'd be pretty crazy to give Rielly zero powerplay time.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

oh my god ..it's almost hockey time..don't really have much in the way of expectations but I am hoping the leafs finally found a goalie.

 

[rdowdall]

oh my god ..it's almost hockey time..don't really have much in the way of expectations but I am hoping the leafs finally found a goalie.

The bold prediction on TSN was that one Hutchinson or Hellebuyck will probably be gone by the end of the season.  Leafs could always take a swing at one of them if need be.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Man Babs really likes the whole '4 forwards on the PP' thing. But when you're sitting Rielly so Komarov and Michalek can get minutes there something is seriously wrong.

There are a couple of reasons why you'd maybe want to keep Reilly off the 2nd unit (specifically):

1.  If you don't score on the PP, the other team can have momentum from the kill.  What better way to negate that by having your top pair (as of this moment) be on the ice after the PP.  Most often, following up a kill will be the opposition's best offensive players.

2.  Pump up Michalek's value (already mentioned, but it was also one of my thoughts).  Michalek has always been a fixture on PP's wherever he's played and taking him off will hurt his value.

3.  Assuming they are running the umbrella (one d-man in the middle, forwards at each half-boards)... I'd rather have Matthews and Nylander over Reilly shooting from those half boards.

4.  Nobody else on that 2nd PP unit offers the net-front presence we are looking for other than Komarov and Michalek.  If you substitute someone else for either, it surely won't be Reilly.  (Holland or Hyman most likely).

This is a solid post, post more please.

 

[disco]

 

[hockeyfan1]

GO LEAFS GO!!!

 

[Tigger]

vortex of doom?

go leafs go!

 

[Fanatic]

Great job on the game day thread Carlton.

One correction though. Josh Leivo is not on the Leafs roster right now. The only extra forward is Seth Griffith.

p.s. I just noticed that you started the post yesterday morning before that would have been known..... but there it is anyway.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Man Babs really likes the whole '4 forwards on the PP' thing. But when you're sitting Rielly so Komarov and Michalek can get minutes there something is seriously wrong.

There are a couple of reasons why you'd maybe want to keep Reilly off the 2nd unit (specifically):

1.  If you don't score on the PP, the other team can have momentum from the kill.  What better way to negate that by having your top pair (as of this moment) be on the ice after the PP.  Most often, following up a kill will be the opposition's best offensive players.

2.  Pump up Michalek's value (already mentioned, but it was also one of my thoughts).  Michalek has always been a fixture on PP's wherever he's played and taking him off will hurt his value.

3.  Assuming they are running the umbrella (one d-man in the middle, forwards at each half-boards)... I'd rather have Matthews and Nylander over Reilly shooting from those half boards.

4.  Nobody else on that 2nd PP unit offers the net-front presence we are looking for other than Komarov and Michalek.  If you substitute someone else for either, it surely won't be Reilly.  (Holland or Hyman most likely).

This is a solid post, post more please.

Thanks.  I check in here daily and I should post more, but sometimes, I don't think adding my voice adds anything

herman also pointed out that Babcock probably doesn't want Reilly's work load to be too heavy.  With offensive defensemen like Gardiner, Carrick, and Zaitsev also around, I can see why Babcock figures he should rest Reilly on the PP for the #1 reason I posted above.  Reilly will see significant 5-on-5 and PK minutes already.

 

[Zee]

Let's do this!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

herman also pointed out that Babcock probably doesn't want Reilly's work load to be too heavy.  With offensive defensemen like Gardiner, Carrick, and Zaitsev also around, I can see why Babcock figures he should rest Reilly on the PP for the #1 reason I posted above.  Reilly will see significant 5-on-5 and PK minutes already.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me that Carrick should be on the powerplay too. I feel like Babs got used to doing the 4-forwards thing on the PP largely out of necessity in Detroit because they rarely had this many good offensive defencemen. Anyway, we'll see how it all shakes out in the next few weeks/months.

On the topic of whether Rielly is actually suited to be on the powerplay or not, I actually always felt that he was a better option there than Gardiner. I'd have Jake playing more PK minutes and Rielly playing more on the PP if it were up to me. Granted, neither of them have really excelled on the powerplay at this point in their careers. Both of their P/60's in the PP have been lower than what you'd like from a quarterback type in the past 2 years. Rielly had a really good one in his rookie season but that was with more limited ice-time. But that could also be explained by the fact that they generally played 2nd unit minutes and those weren't really prime opportunities the past couple seasons.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

herman also pointed out that Babcock probably doesn't want Reilly's work load to be too heavy.  With offensive defensemen like Gardiner, Carrick, and Zaitsev also around, I can see why Babcock figures he should rest Reilly on the PP for the #1 reason I posted above.  Reilly will see significant 5-on-5 and PK minutes already.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me that Carrick should be on the powerplay too. I feel like Babs got used to doing the 4-forwards thing on the PP largely out of necessity in Detroit because they rarely had this many good offensive defencemen. Anyway, we'll see how it all shakes out in the next few weeks/months.

On the topic of whether Rielly is actually suited to be on the powerplay or not, I actually always felt that he was a better option there than Gardiner. I'd have Jake playing more PK minutes and Rielly playing more on the PP if it were up to me. Granted, neither of them have really excelled on the powerplay at this point in their careers. Both of their P/60's in the PP have been lower than what you'd like from a quarterback type in the past 2 years. Rielly had a really good one in his rookie season but that was with more limited ice-time. But that could also be explained by the fact that they generally played 2nd unit minutes and those weren't really prime opportunities the past couple seasons.

I can't comment on whether Babcock was forced to use it in Detroit but there has been some who have looked into it and written about it: Why teams should use 4 forwards on the powerplay

On tonight's game - I've got my new jersey and I'm ready.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I can't comment on whether Babcock was forced to use it in Detroit but there has been some who have looked into it and written about it: Why teams should use 4 forwards on the powerplay

On tonight's game - I've got my new jersey and I'm ready.

Babcock was asked about it last year in one of those post-game/practice scrums and he said much the same. Basically forwards give you a better chance to score because they are more creative offensively.

I haven't studied it enough to say he is right or wrong, but I definitely remember his using that reasoning last season.

 

[Frank E]

herman also pointed out that Babcock probably doesn't want Reilly's work load to be too heavy.  With offensive defensemen like Gardiner, Carrick, and Zaitsev also around, I can see why Babcock figures he should rest Reilly on the PP for the #1 reason I posted above.  Reilly will see significant 5-on-5 and PK minutes already.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me that Carrick should be on the powerplay too. I feel like Babs got used to doing the 4-forwards thing on the PP largely out of necessity in Detroit because they rarely had this many good offensive defencemen. Anyway, we'll see how it all shakes out in the next few weeks/months.

On the topic of whether Rielly is actually suited to be on the powerplay or not, I actually always felt that he was a better option there than Gardiner. I'd have Jake playing more PK minutes and Rielly playing more on the PP if it were up to me. Granted, neither of them have really excelled on the powerplay at this point in their careers. Both of their P/60's in the PP have been lower than what you'd like from a quarterback type in the past 2 years. Rielly had a really good one in his rookie season but that was with more limited ice-time. But that could also be explained by the fact that they generally played 2nd unit minutes and those weren't really prime opportunities the past couple seasons.

Plus I don't think Rielly and Babcock think there's as much urgency there compared to developing the more defensive side of his game.  Rielly just signed a long term deal, so there's no big push from him to inflate his points total.

I can see the coaching staff just sitting him down and saying here's the plan for this year: We're going to develop your defensive game to make you a huge minute monster all around...you'll get your points.

Or, he'll be in the first PP unit before next game, and this is all a bunch of crap.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Babcock was asked about it last year in one of those post-game/practice scrums and he said much the same. Basically forwards give you a better chance to score because they are more creative offensively.

I haven't studied it enough to say he is right or wrong, but I definitely remember his using that reasoning last season.

Yup, I remember that coming up last season too. And I'm completely all for just using your 10 best offensively creative skaters on your team for the PP regardless of their position, but I think that still includes Rielly here.

 

[herman]

For what it's worth, Babcock leaves the PP up to Jim Hiller to run, and he's pretty committed to the 4F/1D set up to ensure we are "outnumbering at the net".

Point - Half Wall, Half Wall - Front - Back
1: Gardiner - Marner, Kadri - JvR - Bozak
2: Zaitsev - Nylander, Matthews - Komarov - Michalek

If the goal is to help Rielly become more well-rounded, and to place a goal in front of him, then Gardiner's PP seat is as good as any motivator. Rielly's problems aren't with scoring, they're with reducing shots against (which Gardiner has much less difficulty with), so it stands to reason that early in a developmental year, Rielly would have to focus on defensive opportunities.

Gardiner's development curve leans more towards growing in his decision making and utilizing his pretty good shot more often, so again, the PP is a good place for him to work on it. He's the only outside shooting threat on PP1, whereas PP2 has Zaitsev, Nylander, and Matthews.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Babcock was asked about it last year in one of those post-game/practice scrums and he said much the same. Basically forwards give you a better chance to score because they are more creative offensively.

I haven't studied it enough to say he is right or wrong, but I definitely remember his using that reasoning last season.

Yup, I remember that coming up last season too. And I'm completely all for just using your 10 best offensively creative skaters on your team for the PP regardless of their position, but I think that still includes Rielly here.

Well, all of them being offensively creative isn't entirely the best recipe either.  That sounds like a whole lot of passing around.  I do think you need at least one player battling in front of the net, scoring the dirty goals off rebounds and tips.  JvR is clearly our top choice there, but after that I'd say Michalek and Komarov are probably next.  Connor Brown, Leivo, and Holland being the other options.  Right now it seems like our umbrella's are:

Kadri - Gardiner - Marner, with Bozak and JvR working down low / in front.
Nylander - Zaitsev - Matthews, with Komarov and Michalek working down low / in front.

My main complaint about that... Nylander and Matthews are probably the best shooters-  Marner and Kadri can't shoot like the other two IMO.  I'd rather have one of each weapon:

Marner - Matthews and Nylander - Kadri