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Maple Leafs are better, but are they a playoff team?

BlueWhiteBlood said:
All I meant is that we saw lots of Gardiner and I could make a pretty good judgement on him and that Grabovski and Kulemin looked exactly as strong as they were last year.

Where it didn't tell me anything, was that the "full team" never seemed to be on the ice at the same time, so I can't really make any kind of judgment on what kind of team we have as a unit at all.
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I think, and I think your own post says you agree, is that while big picture statements about the team are very hard to make after watching pre-season games that statements about individuals are fairer.

There are things to take out of the pre-season about specific players that are good and bad. Grabo looks pretty good, Komisarek doesn't. Gardiner looks closer than we thought, Kadri looks farther away than we might hope.
Kulemin doesn't appear to have taken a step back, Connolly may have to be stuffed with newspaper and packaged with styrofoam peanuts on long flights.

But in terms of team-wide predictions those shouldn't be too heavily influenced by the pre-season and should really be about the level of talent on the club as we've seen from players' past performances.
 
Saint Nik said:
I think, and I think your own post says you agree, is that while big picture statements about the team are very hard to make after watching pre-season games that statements about individuals are fairer.
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No, that's fair. I was just agreeing with Busta that for me, seeing the whole team together and making a call on what we have as a team is nowhere near close enough for me to say one way or the other. It will take a few games with a full line-up to get a grasp on whether or not the new additions really help to make us closer to a playoff team.

But in terms of team-wide predictions those shouldn't be too heavily influenced by the pre-season and should really be about the level of talent on the club as we've seen from players' past performances.
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Right, I could guess that a guy like Dupuis could very well help to solidify the 4th line and Frattin will do a good job on the 3rd line. Your assessment of Connolly is probably, while sarcastic, pretty close to what we expected, maybe just not to the extent of how quickly it has reared it's head.

Maybe the talk of Wilson shoring up the team a little quicker and looking forward to a few games in the pre-season with as close to a full line-up, would ultimately give us a better look at what we could expect, injuries appeared to have changed plans. So with that, it left me wanting a bit or on the fence about how I feel about their chances this season.
 
BlueWhiteBlood said:
No, that's fair. I was just agreeing with Busta that for me, seeing the whole team together and making a call on what we have as a team is nowhere near close enough for me to say one way or the other. It will take a few games with a full line-up to get a grasp on whether or not the new additions really help to make us closer to a playoff team.
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Well, this is a speculation/prediction thread that was started in July so I don't think especially solid ground is what was being looked for here when it came to opinions. Training camp gave us a better idea by a hair but that's it. Obviously we won't really know anything until mid-March but, heck, such is the nature of pre-season predictions.
 
If the Leafs get off to a 4-0 start again this season, I'll be more cautious with my hopes.  I want to see what the record is at the quarter point of the season before I start hoping.
 
Zee said:
If the Leafs get off to a 4-0 start again this season, I'll be more cautious with my hopes.  I want to see what the record is at the quarter point of the season before I start hoping.
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I can't imagine a 4-0 record again. I think they'd be lucky to be over .500 by the end of October.
 
Bender said:
Zee said:
If the Leafs get off to a 4-0 start again this season, I'll be more cautious with my hopes.  I want to see what the record is at the quarter point of the season before I start hoping.
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I can't imagine a 4-0 record again. I think they'd be lucky to be over .500 by the end of October.
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Habs
Ottawa
Calgary
Colorado

Not out of the question.  I can easily see 3-1 out of that.
 
Drafting up my projected standings in the predictions thread, I had a hard time finding 7 teams the Leafs will be better than to squeeze into the playoffs.  The Leafs got better, but others around them did just as well and those well above them didn't lose enough to suggest they'll fall off the map. 

This could become glaringly apparent early if Reimer doesn't start off as he finished last year.  This team does not have enough offence nor is the greatest defensively to mask a slip in goaltending. 

I certainly hope I am wrong, but I'm not envisioning ordering playoff tickets just yet. :( *please let them have a good start...please let them have a good start*
 
Peter D. said:
Drafting up my projected standings in the predictions thread, I had a hard time finding 7 teams the Leafs will be better than to squeeze into the playoffs.  The Leafs got better, but others around them did just as well and those well above them didn't lose enough to suggest they'll fall off the map. 
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This is pretty much my line of thinking as well.  It's not that the Leafs didn't take steps to improve - they did - but really, the only teams in the East not treading water or trending upward are Ottawa, and maybe, for this season, Philly.

In the end, my belief that the Leafs will miss again is not an indictment on their moves or direction, so much as it is a realization that the East has more  (and perhaps more sure-fire) playoff caliber clubs than in recent years.

All that said, my hope is that fortune and timing smile on the team and management, and they sneak in.
 
Peter D. said:
Drafting up my projected standings in the predictions thread, I had a hard time finding 7 teams the Leafs will be better than to squeeze into the playoffs.  The Leafs got better, but others around them did just as well and those well above them didn't lose enough to suggest they'll fall off the map. 

This could become glaringly apparent early if Reimer doesn't start off as he finished last year.  This team does not have enough offence nor is the greatest defensively to mask a slip in goaltending. 

I certainly hope I am wrong, but I'm not envisioning ordering playoff tickets just yet. :( *please let them have a good start...please let them have a good start*
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My take on the playoffs goes like this:

Leafs will surely finish below - Wash, Pitts, Bos, Buff, Phil, and TB

Leafs will finish ahead of - Ott, Fla, Win, and NYI

Ideally you would like the teams that are surely better than you to be shorter than the ones that you are surely better than. But that is not the case with the Leafs.

But I do think that leaves them in a dog fight with NJ, NYR, Mon, Car. To me, this group of 5 teams (including the Leafs) is what we have to watch for. At this point I do not know that anyone can say that any of those 5 teams is surely going to be better than the next. I debated putting NYR in the class ahead, but I am not sold on them as much as some others.

Leafs are in a 5 team dog fight for 2 playoff spots. I like to think that they will be there.


Edit - following this thought - Leafs fans are just as interested in October about what any of these 5 teams are doing as in March. If any of those other 4 get off to a slow start it could eliminate them from the chase just as easily as if the Leafs were to make that mistake.
 
1st line: Made of glass.  Teams will still focus on Kessel and that will shut down the entire 1st line equation.
2nd line: Possible improvement.  Think Kulemin has most upside.
3rd line: Featuring more offense.  But will they supply decent penalty-killing?
4th line: Would like to see what Lambardi and Brown can do with their speed.  Think this is going to be the fastest 4th line the Leafs have had.
Defense: The best feature of the Leafs defense is their hitting.  And the league is going to make it so players won't want to.  The result?  Team is going to be left behind the times just like they were when JFJ managed them into the new Cap world.
Goaltending: Forget Reimer, the real test in net is going to be with Gus.  He could go either way at this point.
 
moon111 said:
1st line: Made of glass.  Teams will still focus on Kessel and that will shut down the entire 1st line equation.
2nd line: Possible improvement.  Think Kulemin has most upside.
3rd line: Featuring more offense.  But will they supply decent penalty-killing?
4th line: Would like to see what Lambardi and Brown can do with their speed.  Think this is going to be the fastest 4th line the Leafs have had.
Defense: The best feature of the Leafs defense is their hitting.  And the league is going to make it so players won't want to.  The result?  Team is going to be left behind the times just like they were when JFJ managed them into the new Cap world.
Goaltending: Forget Reimer, the real test in net is going to be with Gus.  He could go either way at this point.
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Well put
I am afaid this is going to be another long season
 
What? Connolly is  out?

We're done. Game over, man. Game over. I'm throwing away my parade plan. We're never making the playoffs now.
 
moon111 said:
4th line: Would like to see what Lambardi and Brown can do with their speed.  Think this is going to be the fastest 4th line the Leafs have had.
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I was trying to think of a Leafs roster that had collected a better set of skaters (skating as opposed to referring to other hockey skills). I thought of the '99 team but I think this group is better at that skill and may well be the best roster for skating the Leafs have ever iced. Maybe someone can think of a better Leafs roster at this skill but I doubt there are many, if any. I don't know how far they'll get but I doubt it will be boring to watch them try to win games. They have speed to burn.
 
Mordac said:
What? Connolly is  out?

We're done. Game over, man. Game over. I'm throwing away my parade plan. We're never making the playoffs now.
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at this point, anything we get out of Connolly is a bonus.
 
Leafs will put us on the edge of our seats every game all season but in the end will again be fighting for the 8th spot:

Defence:  Still about a #3 or #4 defensive core on the top 20-25 NHL teams.  No new additions that would move the team up from one of the worst teams in PP, PK, GA.  Addition of Gardiner brings some offensive skill and speed and Fransen's point shot might all help the PP.  Hopefully both will help in the GA department but that is a big unknown. 

Goaltending:  Reimer will have to stand on his head again this season, unfortunately the scouts now have a book on him and with a weak defense in front of him, he will be screened a lot as well as he will be looking at a lot of open opposing players in scoring position as was the case last year (GA). Last years defense can do a good job of clearing out the goal area but they were rarely in a position to do so leaving players wide open, usually behind the defense or open to the side of the net.  Unfortunately, I think Reemer and Gus are on their own again this year unless d-man additions are more effective than last years core and that they get awarded with additional ice time.

Offense:  No big power forward additions.  Because of that, there will little to no increase in goal output or PP effectiveness putting Leafs again as bottom feeders in those stats department .  With no power forwards creating  havoc in front of the net, players like Kessel will again be taking weak shots, with no chance of a screen, which the goalies will eat up.  With no power forwards along the boards, Grabovski and Kulimen will again take a beating, opening themselves up for injuries.

Yikes, I think we are in for another long season!
 
I'd like to see the Leafs do well this season. However, I have a sinking feeling that they may be a lottery team this year (at least with their own pick).

Of course, I have been a little extra paranoid in general lately, so it could be just a bit of that creeping in. :)
 
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