Maple Leafs are better, but are they a playoff team?

[Madferret]

You are right - I apologize.

Here's my beef - it's easy to spend to the cap / trade away draft picks and then say you're rebuilding when you miss the playoffs.

are you suggesting that's what the leafs are doing?  because i guess i find it hard to call this anything other than a rebuild when you look at the overhaul of personal over the last few years..i think schenn has been on the team the longest?  so while there can be some debate over whether this is the traditional "rebuild" or was an attempt at a rebuild on the fly ...i don't think it can be argued that it's a rebuild of some sort..the team was completely gutted ..pretty much top to bottom ...i guess i don't have another term for that

Maybe it's more the media but yeah. Not so much this season but you can't tell me Burke's processes haven't been redefined along the way. He even said so himself that he wasn't interested in any kind of long term rebuild when he took over.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You are right - I apologize.

Here's my beef - it's easy to spend to the cap / trade away draft picks and then say you're rebuilding when you miss the playoffs.

are you suggesting that's what the leafs are doing?  because i guess i find it hard to call this anything other than a rebuild when you look at the overhaul of personal over the last few years..i think schenn has been on the team the longest?  so while there can be some debate over whether this is the traditional "rebuild" or was an attempt at a rebuild on the fly ...i don't think it can be argued that it's a rebuild of some sort..the team was completely gutted ..pretty much top to bottom ...i guess i don't have another term for that

Agreed. This has been more like a complete re-haul. The entire line-up is completely different than the one just a few short years ago.

I can't really buy your argument here ferret, but I except your apology nonetheless.

Re-haul is the perfect word for what the Leafs did / are doing and rebuilding is what Ottawa is doing. So you can't really compare the two organizations in terms of where they are on any kind of ladder -  both clubs are ultimately trying to achieve the same thing but both are going about it in different ways. Is this fair?

How is Ottawa's situation any more of a rebuild?  They're still relying on a strong core of older players, not selling them off.

 

[Madferret]

You are right - I apologize.

Here's my beef - it's easy to spend to the cap / trade away draft picks and then say you're rebuilding when you miss the playoffs.

are you suggesting that's what the leafs are doing?  because i guess i find it hard to call this anything other than a rebuild when you look at the overhaul of personal over the last few years..i think schenn has been on the team the longest?  so while there can be some debate over whether this is the traditional "rebuild" or was an attempt at a rebuild on the fly ...i don't think it can be argued that it's a rebuild of some sort..the team was completely gutted ..pretty much top to bottom ...i guess i don't have another term for that

Agreed. This has been more like a complete re-haul. The entire line-up is completely different than the one just a few short years ago.

I can't really buy your argument here ferret, but I except your apology nonetheless.

Re-haul is the perfect word for what the Leafs did / are doing and rebuilding is what Ottawa is doing. So you can't really compare the two organizations in terms of where they are on any kind of ladder -  both clubs are ultimately trying to achieve the same thing but both are going about it in different ways. Is this fair?

How is Ottawa's situation any more of a rebuild?  They're still relying on a strong core of older players, not selling them off.

I'm going to answer this in the Sens thread Potvin..

 

[applecheeks]

It was a rebuild, yes. Do we have better depth than the Sens, I believe we do. So i'm thinking that if injuries start happening to Ottawa as they did with T.O, will they fill the spots with a winning team. OK, above .500 hockey as they are now. The Leafs have survived that stretch and have sent most of their relief back to the AHL to hone their skills even more. So we have better depth and we're in better shape than the Sens IMO.

Philly is teadering and Pittsburg needs to stop the bleeding. 4th or 5th is not out of reach, Jersey will be the team to stay above and if BB makes an addition to the forward ranks, we should be a solid two round team. at least two rounds of Playoff hockey. Which sets us up for next year to compete for a cup run. just saying out loud.

 

[Redleaf]

You are right - I apologize.

Here's my beef - it's easy to spend to the cap / trade away draft picks and then say you're rebuilding when you miss the playoffs.

are you suggesting that's what the leafs are doing?  because i guess i find it hard to call this anything other than a rebuild when you look at the overhaul of personal over the last few years..i think schenn has been on the team the longest?  so while there can be some debate over whether this is the traditional "rebuild" or was an attempt at a rebuild on the fly ...i don't think it can be argued that it's a rebuild of some sort..the team was completely gutted ..pretty much top to bottom ...i guess i don't have another term for that

Agreed. This has been more like a complete re-haul. The entire line-up is completely different than the one just a few short years ago.

I can't really buy your argument here ferret, but I except your apology nonetheless.

Re-haul is the perfect word for what the Leafs did / are doing and rebuilding is what Ottawa is doing. So you can't really compare the two organizations in terms of where they are on any kind of ladder -  both clubs are ultimately trying to achieve the same thing but both are going about it in different ways. Is this fair?

I get your argument.

I guess my point was more to the evolution of the way each team has rebuilt their clubs. The Leafs have rebuilt themselves from the ground up. We have seen a complete tear down and build up over the past 3 or 4 years, and have watched as the team has slowly gotten better each and every year after a prolonged stay at or near the bottom. They now appear to be on pretty solid footing. (knock on wood)

With the Sens, its been a much quicker transition from 09-10 to last season, and subsequent climb back up the standings this year. To me their rebuild almost seems as though it has happened too quickly to be sustainable in the short term. There still seems to be some skepticism going around as to how much depth and sustainability the Sens really have moving forward, especially if injuries start to take hold of the team.

Thats all I meant by the Leafs being a rung or two higher on the "rebuild ladder"

 

[rdowdall]

You are right - I apologize.

Here's my beef - it's easy to spend to the cap / trade away draft picks and then say you're rebuilding when you miss the playoffs.

are you suggesting that's what the leafs are doing?  because i guess i find it hard to call this anything other than a rebuild when you look at the overhaul of personal over the last few years..i think schenn has been on the team the longest?  so while there can be some debate over whether this is the traditional "rebuild" or was an attempt at a rebuild on the fly ...i don't think it can be argued that it's a rebuild of some sort..the team was completely gutted ..pretty much top to bottom ...i guess i don't have another term for that

Agreed. This has been more like a complete re-haul. The entire line-up is completely different than the one just a few short years ago.

I can't really buy your argument here ferret, but I except your apology nonetheless.

Re-haul is the perfect word for what the Leafs did / are doing and rebuilding is what Ottawa is doing. So you can't really compare the two organizations in terms of where they are on any kind of ladder -  both clubs are ultimately trying to achieve the same thing but both are going about it in different ways. Is this fair?

I get your argument.

I guess my point was more to the evolution of the way each team has rebuilt their clubs. The Leafs have rebuilt themselves from the ground up. We have seen a complete tear down and build up over the past 3 or 4 years, and have watched as the team has slowly gotten better each and every year after a prolonged stay at or near the bottom. They now appear to be on pretty solid footing. (knock on wood)

With the Sens, its been a much quicker transition from 09-10 to last season, and subsequent climb back up the standings this year. To me their rebuild almost seems as though it has happened too quickly to be sustainable in the short term. There still seems to be some skepticism going around as to how much depth and sustainability the Sens really have moving forward, especially if injuries start to take hold of the team.

Thats all I meant by the Leafs being a rung or two higher on the "rebuilt ladder"

I brought this up with a Sens fan, and he said "To be fair, the sens haven't been all that good for three years now."

 

[Ken]

We'll see the Sens true colours over the next month. They've got a tough schedule.  I've got to be honest, I'd love to see if Karlsson's a 'real deal' type of guy in a playoff series, where he'd spend many shifts getting knocked around.

Leafs look pretty good right now, and I expect they'll look good just as long as the goaltending holds up. I can't believe the depth in scoring that's emerging. Imagine if Kadri and Connolly could catch a little fire.

I like the playoff chances. Here's hoping Reimer and Gust can hold the fort.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

We'll see the Sens true colours over the next month. They've got a tough schedule.  I've got to be honest, I'd love to see if Karlsson's a 'real deal' type of guy in a playoff series, where he'd spend many shifts getting knocked around.

I don't watch the Sens much (except when they play the Leafs), but what's the deal between last year and this year to date?  I looked at his shots on goal and he's on pace for nearly 300!  Going from -8 last year to +30 so far this year is a nice change as well.  Has he really grown that much offensively or is he just finding a way to get more shots through?

 

[Ken]

We'll see the Sens true colours over the next month. They've got a tough schedule.  I've got to be honest, I'd love to see if Karlsson's a 'real deal' type of guy in a playoff series, where he'd spend many shifts getting knocked around.

I don't watch the Sens much (except when they play the Leafs), but what's the deal between last year and this year to date?  I looked at his shots on goal and he's on pace for nearly 300!  Going from -8 last year to +30 so far this year is a nice change as well.  Has he really grown that much offensively or is he just finding a way to get more shots through?

He's getting points because the guys around him are scoring. It's all assists with this guy. The whole offensive gameplan seems to be "Pass it to Karlsson, go to the net". I'd love to see a stat on how many 2nd assists this guy gets, because I think he gets plenty of second-touch type of assists.

The guy has an absolute bomb of a shot, BTW. A real cannon, even when he wrists it. I think coaching is about 80% of the reason he's getting shots through. Last year, Cluelesston was shifting D onto the wrong side with regularity, and they had zero puck possession as a result. I mean, what coach puts a tenured guy like Gonchar on his off-side? Reinventing the effing wheel every game is stoopid.

I still think the Sens will slump soon. But if that team makes the playoffs, Maclean deserves and Adams Trophy look.

And who wouldn't love a Leafs Sens second round?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And who wouldn't love a Leafs Sens second round?

The sens, probably.

 

[Madferret]

And who wouldn't love a Leafs Sens second round?

The sens, probably.

Hey now!

 

[LuncheonMeat]

And who wouldn't love a Leafs Sens second round?

The sens, probably.

Hey now!

;D

 

[maplesyrup]

Nope. Not as we stand now.

 

[ZBBM]

Nope. Not as we stand now.

I dunno.  They are hanging in with a very good defensive team tonight.  That Kessel post goes in....  Anyway, if they go on to lose tonight they really need to win 3 of the next 4 at home to avoid sinking into catch-up territory.

 

[leafplasma]

Next 5 games:
Ott
Min
Mon
NYI
@NYI

That is as good a chance to win your 5 in a row as any.  There is no way we can cruise through these games if we want to get into the playoffs.  I am not say we have to win all 5 but anything less then 4-1 would be very disappointing.

 

[Stebro]

I think that we will get around 90 points, will it be enough? maybe. However I do really think that it's time for a trade, just to make a change of some sort, it's been a while.

 

[Bender]

I think that we will get around 90 points, will it be enough? maybe. However I do really think that it's time for a trade, just to make a change of some sort, it's been a while.

Yeah, I think we have a glut of players in D and on Offense. We should see if we can shuttle a couple and throw in a prospect for something of better value and quality. I mean, our core is set anyway with Phaneuf, Kessel and Lupul for now. I wouldn't be against trading Lombardi in a package in order to get a higher end forward back.

 

[leafplasma]

I think that we will get around 90 points, will it be enough? maybe. However I do really think that it's time for a trade, just to make a change of some sort, it's been a while.

Yeah, I think we have a glut of players in D and on Offense. We should see if we can shuttle a couple and throw in a prospect for something of better value and quality. I mean, our core is set anyway with Phaneuf, Kessel and Lupul for now. I wouldn't be against trading Lombardi in a package in order to get a higher end forward back.

I think if Burke could trade Lombardi and his contract now he would do it in a heart beat.  Who is going to take him though?  I think you would have to give up another asset to do it, not like the Franson deal but you would need to add in a lesser prospect. 

He really has not looked good out there after coming off a year long hiatus with his concussion.  I mean you here about his blazing speed and to me he looks slower than Frattin out there who was not supposed to be that great of a skater.  What has he done defensively?  This was supposed to be a defensively sound guy that could put up a few points.  I find he is lost with the puck and easily knocked off of it.  I am willing to give him some leeway and ease him into the lineup due to his injury history but at some point I want to see a glimpse of something.  I just can't see a GM wanting a guy like Lombardi right now.

 

[maplesyrup]

So frustrating that the Sens were able to retool in a year and here we are, in what, year 4 of the rebuild?... and we're likely to need another year to be considered a playoff team. Now, I haven't given up hopes for this year but like I said in the "shopping" thread, I sincerely hope that any moves Burke makes aren't made with just this year in mind.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

So frustrating that the Sens were able to retool in a year and here we are, in what, year 4 of the rebuild?... and we're likely to need another year to be considered a playoff team. Now, I haven't given up hopes for this year but like I said in the "shopping" thread, I sincerely hope that any moves Burke makes aren't made with just this year in mind.

IMO, that's just Ratface and Dumbo picking up most of the slack. Sure, Michalek is having a good year and they have a good rookie defender, but you take Ratface and Dumbo off that team and I think they get blown out more than they win. That's my take.