Matthias to Avs for Colin Smith and a 4th round pick

[rdowdall]

How do you define failure?  Because in essence, this season has been a failure.  It's just that they wanted it to be a failure, so they succeeded.

I'd define failure as not meeting your goals. Their goal was to land a high draft pick. That looks like it's almost certainly going to happen.

Herm Edwards says that you play to win the games.

 

[bustaheims]

How do you define failure?  Because in essence, this season has been a failure.  It's just that they wanted it to be a failure, so they succeeded.

I'd define failure as not meeting your goals. Their goal was to land a high draft pick. That looks like it's almost certainly going to happen.

Herm Edwards says that you play to win the games.

Sometimes, there's more than one way to win, and more than one type of game being played.

 

[rdowdall]

How do you define failure?  Because in essence, this season has been a failure.  It's just that they wanted it to be a failure, so they succeeded.

I'd define failure as not meeting your goals. Their goal was to land a high draft pick. That looks like it's almost certainly going to happen.

Herm Edwards says that you play to win the games.

Sometimes, there's more than one way to win, and more than one type of game being played.

Are we talking about practice?

 

[herman]

Yes, but there is also a list of franchise players that did not win. Sundin for example *weeps

More:
Iginla
Alfredsson
Luongo
Ovechkin
Nash
Lundqvist
Weber

But isn't Ovechkin generational, not franchise? And by including the likes of Nash and Alfredsson on a list with Sundin or Iginla(where with the former it would be tough to argue that they were ever really the best player on a cup contending team) aren't you stretching the definition of Franchise player to sort of a meaningless point?

I'll be honest, I've lost track of the discussion. Franchise player good, Generational player better, high draft pick make happy, yes?

I treat Generational as a subset of Franchise, as there is no Generational player that was not also the Franchise player.

Franchise player, for me, is a nearly meaningless label. Basically the most marketable skilled player that the team tries to pimp as the leader or face of the franchise.

Maybe I lost track of the discussion too.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'll be honest, I've lost track of the discussion. Franchise player good, Generational player better, high draft pick make happy, yes?

Yeah this has kinda spiralled out of control. Some generational players win Cups, some don't. Some franchise players win Cups, some don't. To go even further, some good teams win Cups, some don't.

 

[Kin]

Franchise player, for me, is a nearly meaningless label. Basically the most marketable skilled player that the team tries to pimp as the leader or face of the franchise.

Maybe I lost track of the discussion too.

Fair enough. I guess what I was trying to agree with you vis-a-vis a return on the investment. Teams draft the sort of player we're looking for in the top 2 or top 3 pretty frequently so solely getting the #1 isn't the basis of advocating the team's rebuilding strategy.

 

[herman]

Fair enough. I guess what I was trying to agree with you vis-a-vis a return on the investment. Teams draft the sort of player we're looking for in the top 2 or top 3 pretty frequently so solely getting the #1 isn't the basis of advocating the team's rebuilding strategy.

Agreed. My initial post today was merely reiterating what you were explaining yesterday.

 

[rdowdall]

Fair enough. I guess what I was trying to agree with you vis-a-vis a return on the investment. Teams draft the sort of player we're looking for in the top 2 or top 3 pretty frequently so solely getting the #1 isn't the basis of advocating the team's rebuilding strategy.

Agreed. My initial post today was merely reiterating what you were explaining yesterday.

If we are all in agreement, lets lower the DEFCON back to 5 then.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Clearly we need another trade ASAP.

 

[Highlander]

Lou only works on Sundays and announces on Mondays

 

[Bullfrog]

I treat Generational as a subset of Franchise, as there is no Generational player that was not also the Franchise player.

Franchise player, for me, is a nearly meaningless label. Basically the most marketable skilled player that the team tries to pimp as the leader or face of the franchise.

Maybe I lost track of the discussion too.

I need a Venn diagram to understand what the hell you're saying.

 

[ZBBM]

I think this thread has devolved into an orgy of Consolation Porn.

 

[herman]

I treat Generational as a subset of Franchise, as there is no Generational player that was not also the Franchise player.

Franchise player, for me, is a nearly meaningless label. Basically the most marketable skilled player that the team tries to pimp as the leader or face of the franchise.

Maybe I lost track of the discussion too.

I need a Venn diagram to understand what the hell you're saying.

What a great idea!

 

[Kin]

I think this thread has devolved into an orgy of Consolation Porn.

Yeah, I still don't get what your point is. Do you really think people need to be told the #1 pick is good?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think this thread has devolved into an orgy of Consolation Porn.

It's not like anybody came into this season banking on getting Matthews. Everyone knew that the odds were low even if we did finish last, and there were plenty of people who didn't think we'd even be bottom-3. This isn't like Buffalo last year where they tanked 10x harder than we have and still came out with consolation prize.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So the original point still stands - it is preferable to finish last and draft no worse than 4th.

 

[Bullfrog]

So the original point still stands - it is preferable to finish last and draft no worse than 4th.

I think this calls for a Venn diagram.

 

[herman]

It's not like anybody came into this season banking on getting Matthews. Everyone knew that the odds were low even if we did finish last, and there were plenty of people who didn't think we'd even be bottom-3. This isn't like Buffalo last year where they tanked 10x harder than we have and still came out with consolation prize.

I'd say we tanked smarter than Buffalo, with our cheap temporary lineup filler that have yielded more returns than could've been hoped for. They definitely tanked on the right draft though.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So the original point still stands - it is preferable to finish last and draft no worse than 4th.

Unless Matthews is a generational player, those guys are jinxed.

 

[Kin]

I'd say we tanked smarter than Buffalo, with our cheap temporary lineup filler that have yielded more returns than could've been hoped for. They definitely tanked on the right draft though.

They did a really good job of accumulating picks though. In the last four drafts they've had six #1's(none higher than #16), seven #2's and four #3's.