Media Thread

[Bender]

Cox was right, you could see how much this affected the team tonight.

They say pride comes before the fall. Damien's due for a drop into the Grand Canyon.

 

[EasternOntarioLeafFan]

Steve Simmons is so off the mark it isn't even funny. Simmons gets exactly what he deserves. The bottom line is I think Burke's approach is exactly what this media zoo needs. A little reality check...

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Steve Simmons is so off the mark it isn't even funny. Simmons gets exactly what he deserves. The bottom line is I think Burke's approach is exactly what this media zoo needs. A little reality check...

Exactly. They're sports reporters not investigative journalists or war time correspondents or something that, you know, actually matters.

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has. There's no conspiracy here, and even if there was, it's not one that matters a whole lot.

These guys feel marginalized because they don't have any real power. Most fans don't care. In order for them to feel like they matter, they need those fans to care and for Burke to be told that they (the reporters) matter.

No matter how much they B*$#! and complain this will not happen. It's time they realize that most journalists could (and would probably be happy to) have their jobs. If they have such a problem with the situation they should find something else to do for a living.

 

[Kin]

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has.

Yeah, that's just not true. The reality is that people are so eager for accurate reporting on things that NHL teams make it a point not to disclose(precise injuries, trade rumours) that a reporter who was consistently right about those topics would see a ton of following both on twitter and at his column. The reality is that driving traffic is their job. Their job isn't to write press releases for the Leafs, I can read those if I want at the team's site.

A reporter following the team should be looking for something nobody else has and that informs us about the team otherwise why am I even reading them? I've got no interest in reading team-approved puff pieces and I can find out about the line-ups when I watch the game.

 

[sneakyray]

some good ol' un-biased reporting there

you want to talk about shaping a message because of a personal vendetta.

I mean really?  your going to complain that he is stifling the flow of info the media and do it in a way that is meant to make the leafs look bad (particularly burke)

and you wonder why they don't like to talk to you

 

[Zee]

It's funny, there have been tensions between reporters and the Leafs before, but it never seemed to get this heated in the past.  I suppose it's due to the new media where you can immediately tweet something and it becomes "news".  Stuff that Cox or Simmons might tweet in the heat of the moment might not have gotten out years ago, now it causes headlines.  Fascinating to watch from the sidelines, even if it is a train wreck.

 

[cw]

Report about the sport, the players that are playing and what the coach/GM tells you. That's the job. It's not to ascertain exactly what injury Armstrong or Reimer has.

Yeah, that's just not true. The reality is that people are so eager for accurate reporting on things that NHL teams make it a point not to disclose(precise injuries, trade rumours) that a reporter who was consistently right about those topics would see a ton of following both on twitter and at his column. The reality is that driving traffic is their job. Their job isn't to write press releases for the Leafs, I can read those if I want at the team's site.

A reporter following the team should be looking for something nobody else has and that informs us about the team otherwise why am I even reading them? I've got no interest in reading team-approved puff pieces and I can find out about the line-ups when I watch the game.

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

Folks in the media produce shoddy crap desperate to grab attention when they're too lazy or incapable of delivering more. They may feel as if they've done their job by boosting ratings/readership like Strachan or Berger did. But it's like the kid who cried wolf. Eventually, they're tuned out and put out to pasture because they stop providing any value.

I continue to feel that there are sports journalists/reporters like Fisher, McKenzie, Duhatschek, etc that operate differently than guys/hacks like Simmons and sometimes, Cox.

As one of the top franchises in hockey, I think there's lots of room for improvement with the media that covers this team. I don't fault the Leafs for taking exception to some of that coverage.

Simmons is a pathetic sports writer in my opinion and he'll eventually get put out to pasture like Strachan & Berger - maybe sooner than later after this recent outburst reveals to all that he has no professional relationship with the most important team in the city.

 

[Kin]

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

We could talk for hours about how the changing nature of the news business has fundamentally altered the way a sportswriter goes about their job and, as a general, I don't think there's much room for debate. The need for immediacy and eyeballs has generated a lot of laziness and sensationalism. I can't argue that.

But the reality of the modern day media landscape is that a beat writer, which I'm assuming is a job title that doesn't really apply to Cox, Simmons or Fisher, does have a responsibility to find those scoops and drive those numbers. That is their job. I'm not advocating for it necessarily, I was fine in a world with newspapers and not twitter, but I can only King Canute that for so long.

 

[cw]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

 

[cw]

Red Fisher turned 85 last August. I was reading one of his recent articles the other day. He didn't write puff pieces. In fact, he just criticized the Montreal GM for the Markov contract. Unlike Strachan, he's still employed.

I think Red found a way to go about his business throughout his career without getting into the garbage Simmons & Cox have. For one, I've found his articles to be more reliable, factually correct and/or accurate. For another, he actually seems to put more effort and quality thought into what he has to say. Thirdly, I can't recall Fisher making himself a key part of the story like so many in the media seem to do today through some inflated sense of self importance. I can't recall Red ever writing something just to get a rise out of people - trolling for attention so he could feel as if he'd done his job because that's shoddy crap. I also don't recall him calling his readers sycophants, sheep, etc.

We could talk for hours about how the changing nature of the news business has fundamentally altered the way a sportswriter goes about their job and, as a general, I don't think there's much room for debate. The need for immediacy and eyeballs has generated a lot of laziness and sensationalism. I can't argue that.

But the reality of the modern day media landscape is that a beat writer, which I'm assuming is a job title that doesn't really apply to Cox, Simmons or Fisher, does have a responsibility to find those scoops and drive those numbers. That is their job. I'm not advocating for it necessarily, I was fine in a world with newspapers and not twitter, but I can only King Canute that for so long.

A guy I complimented prior to the Boston starter incident, Jonas Siegel, is a beat writer/reporter. If you look at his coverage of that story, it's pretty much bang on. No one took issue with him. He didn't get into all kinds of acrimony with Wilson either. He was smart enough to sniff the possibility out before it happened through the subtleties of what Wilson said and then report on it.

Siegel, in this 24/7 news environment, had just as much time or less as the others as he had to go on the air that afternoon/early evening. He got it right. Traikos of the National Post also got it right. So it wasn't a fluke or anything impossible. Both men, with the same opportunity as all the others, listened carefully, thought it through and then did their jobs.

And the rest who weren't up to that - including some who don't appear to attend these scrums and probably weren't there - cry foul making accusations of lying when if they'd done their jobs and listened closely & carefully and thought it through like Siegel & Traikos did, they would have got the real story right without silly acrimony.

And that isn't an exception. It's just another example. It's been a pattern with a number of these lazy or incompetent clowns for years in this town.

 

[cw]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him.  :

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. It?s part of the foolish game. " Simmons

 

[L K]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Ah, the Rob Ford tactic.  It's always the "majority" that is silent...as long as your viewpoint is shared by said majority.

 

[Kin]

And the rest who weren't up to that - including some who don't appear to attend these scrums and probably weren't there - cry foul making accusations of lying when if they'd done their jobs and listened closely & carefully and thought it through like Siegel & Traikos did, they would have got the real story right without silly acrimony.

And that isn't an exception. It's just another example. It's been a pattern with a number of these lazy or incompetent clowns for years in this town.

I'm not arguing for Simmons or Cox here. I think they're wrong. I was commenting on the reality of what the media's role is here and what a beat writer has to do.

 

[Zee]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him.  :

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. It?s part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

 

[Bullfrog]

I love Burke's reply to the question of whether he's considering an extension for Wilson.  "None of your business."

Well, except that it is a sports journalist's business.  Sometimes I wish Larry Brooks was on the Leafs beat.  He's not a great writer but he's not intimidated by blowhards either.

Honestly, I'd be more interested in a story by a reporter that proposes whether Burke should consider an extension with a sound reasoning for why. You know, something with some critical thought behind it.

 

[cw]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him.  :

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. It?s part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways.  It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

 

[Bonsixx]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him.  :

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. It?s part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways.  It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

Outside of turning every second incident into an anti-fighting stance, Cox has generally been fairly objective and mostly non-annoying over the last year or two. I have no idea about Simmons however, the guy is a clownshoe.

 

[L K]

If anyone has any doubts about the Simmons article, look at the comments underneath
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/05/burkes-becoming-an-embarrassment

It's a landslide of criticism of the author and in part, the paper. There is a concept out there even in the media business world about "bad public relations". Even newspapers don't want a lot of attention for being a lousy product. Short term, they may sell a bunch. Long term, it gets ugly.

Simmons actually claimed on 1050 that two-thirds of the responses he's heard from readers were supportive of him and his article.  Yep, two-thirds.

Yes but lying is ok with him.  :

"In fairness to Wilson, he did what most coaches do: He lied a little. So what? Everybody does it in sports. It?s part of the foolish game. " Simmons

A buddy of mine in Edmonton texts me last night and says "WTF, how is this reporters / Leafs thing headline news out here??"

I was laughing, they're even hearing about it out west.

One of the Vancouver papers I saw weighed in on it.

With the gloves off and after suffering some professional embarrassment for the dispute, with no relationship between themselves and the Leafs GM & coach, Cox & Simmons will be gunning for Wilson & Burke from here on out at every opportunity. Just like they did when Quinn cut them off.

Both of them suffered for that. Cox got let go from the FAN590 and had to change his ways.  It's not a fight they can really win for their papers long term - particularly with the club on the upswing.

That's what I have a hard time understanding.  These are the same idiots who tried to pick fights with Quinn...its the same guys that had Joe Nieuwendyk banning Toronto papers from the dressing room and being quite surprised about how/what they wrote about the players/team/coaches/GM/etc. 

It's not like this is a new thing for Cox/Simmons to call Leafs fans stupid, accuse the organization of lying and being "against the media". 

No sympathy for them whatsoever.  The ironic thing is the number of "stories" they have about the Leafs will probably swell as their access to the team is cut off...because of all of their "unnamed sources" which is essentially writer lingo for "I get to make stuff up"

 

[freer]

Both the papers suck there, and both the reference reporters suck. it has been the same for 20 plus years in TO. it is never going to change. They both may get fired, but there will always be someone worse then them to replace them. It is the crappy circle that is reporters in TO