Method to the Madness

[mr grieves]

As for the bolded bit, if that were Nonis's assessment, don't you think he wouldn't be getting rid of all the best possession players on the roster?

No. Not if he ultimately decided that they needed to be replaced even if they were the best of a bad bunch in that regard.

But he's choosing to keep the worst of a bad bunch in the area you think he's looking at when deciding the team wasn't actually as good as its record.

Obviously you're right that he didn't think Grabbo, MacArthur, Frattin were 'good enough' -- but I don't see how it could've been the shot differentials and possession numbers that led him to that conclusion.

 

[caver]

What time tomorrow can teams announce signings ?

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

What time tomorrow can teams announce signings ?

Noon.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I think you have a good point and where it not for the Bolland deal, I'd give it more weight. 

I think that deal probably means Nonis sees us competing sooner rather than later.

Ya, that doesn't quite fit either. 

 

[Kin]

But he's choosing to keep the worst of a bad bunch in the area you think he's looking at when deciding the team wasn't actually as good as its record.

Obviously you're right that he didn't think Grabbo, MacArthur, Frattin were 'good enough' -- but I don't see how it could've been the shot differentials and possession numbers that led him to that conclusion.

Well, three things. First as of right now he hasn't really chosen to keep anyone. There's a lot of off-season left to go. Second, there is no one agreed upon statistic that definitely measures what goes into a team's shot totals or puck possession. I know you're probably a CORSI devotee but that doesn't mean Nonis is. Third, if the team is rebuilding, there's nothing confusing at all about starting at the top.

 

[Kin]

I think you have a good point and where it not for the Bolland deal, I'd give it more weight. 

I think that deal probably means Nonis sees us competing sooner rather than later.

I hear you but Bolland is sort of a tweener center on a one year contract. As people say when it comes to this sort of thing, you have to still put people on the ice and Bolland was a low cost, low risk acquisition who isn't likely to be built around.

 

[Frank E]

I think you have a good point and where it not for the Bolland deal, I'd give it more weight. 

I think that deal probably means Nonis sees us competing sooner rather than later.

A retool?  I remember someone trying that a few years back.

I agree with you though, the Bolland deal doesn't really lend well to Nik's point.

 

[caver]

Lots of glasses half empty here today. While the final product's success can only be measured when the season starts you would have to think the Leafs have something good coming for their fans. Leiweke comes in from a successful organization wanting to make MLSE teams winners. Nonis must have the green light to  swing some big deals. I am looking forward to noon tomorrow. (and the rest of the team build)

 

[Kin]

Lots of glasses half empty here today. While the final product's success can only be measured when the season starts you would have to think the Leafs have something good coming for their fans. Leiweke comes in from a successful organization wanting to make MLSE teams winners. Nonis must have the green light to  swing some big deals. I am looking forward to noon tomorrow. (and the rest of the team build)

Who is glass half empty? I agree with Nonis if, in fact, he's doing what I'm suggesting.

 

[Kin]

I agree with you though, the Bolland deal doesn't really lend well to Nik's point.

I think you're drastically overrating how good Bolland is/how much the Leafs spent to acquire him. If he gets second line minutes next year he's a very valuable trade chip on deadline day. That's exactly the kind of move I'd make if I were doing this.

 

[caver]

Lots of glasses half empty here today. While the final product's success can only be measured when the season starts you would have to think the Leafs have something good coming for their fans. Leiweke comes in from a successful organization wanting to make MLSE teams winners. Nonis must have the green light to  swing some big deals. I am looking forward to noon tomorrow. (and the rest of the team build)

Who is glass half empty? I agree with Nonis if, in fact, he's doing what I'm suggesting.

LOL ! Not you, man. But some posters seemed to default to doomsday predictions, which I guess is understandable here in Leaf Nation, but I feel we are heading for good times. 

 

[brothert]

I think that MLSE will finally unvail Gretzky as our new number one center. Can't wait for tomorrow.

 

[ZBBM]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

 

[maplesyrup]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

I firmly believe Nonis tried to deal him. It's ridiculous to think he didn't.

 

[ZBBM]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

I firmly believe Nonis tried to deal him. It's ridiculous to think he didn't.

Grabovski untradeable, eh?  That's what's ridiculous.  His contract isn't that far into the stratosphere.  It may be that Nonis has a signing lined up for tomorrow but even if something like that put us over the cap he would have had plenty of time to move contracts out before the season.

 

[maplesyrup]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

I firmly believe Nonis tried to deal him. It's ridiculous to think he didn't.

Grabovski untradeable, eh?  That's what's ridiculous.  His contract isn't that far into the stratosphere.  It may be that Nonis has a signing lined up for tomorrow but even if something like that put us over the cap he would have had plenty of time to move contracts out before the season.

Trading okay (yes, just okay) players with shall we say, 'questionable' contracts ain't easy. I completely believe there was no market.

 

[brothert]

If your rebuilding why wouldn't he  say to grabbo, you're the no 1 center for now. Trade him at the deadline next year for a bag of pucks+. Rebuilding teams usually have cap space galore. You go with grabbo kadri bolland mcclement and draft high. Unless nonis has something amazing on the books like poaching malkin out of pittsburgh, then this move is pretty craptastic.

 

[Kin]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

I'm sure Nonis could have gotten something back but I'm equally sure that what he could have gotten back is a contract another team didn't want. Otherwise you're asking me to believe that Nonis cost the team millions of dollars and refused an asset out of...what? Spite?

 

[ZBBM]

You might be on to something Nik -- and if Phaneuf gets dealt I think it'll all but confirm your hunch.

Still, even if you are rebuilding it's stunningly bad asset management to just jettison a valuable player like Grabovski and get nothing but cap space in return.  I cannot believe that somebody wouldn't have given us something in trade.

I'm sure Nonis could have gotten something back but I'm equally sure that what he could have gotten back is a contract another team didn't want. Otherwise you're asking me to believe that Nonis cost the team millions of dollars and refused an asset out of...what? Spite?

Lack of patience.

Actually, even taking back a contract somebody else didn't want might turn out to be an asset with a value greater than zero, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Kin]

Lack of patience.

So when you say that you think a team would have given the Leafs something for Grabovski you mean eventually if, say, his stock improved. Well, that may be true but we went over that elsewhere. Today was the last day where Nonis knew for sure he could use a compliance buyout on Grabo and he had to weigh that against the idea that the value would at some point improve.

Actually, even taking back a contract somebody else didn't want might turn out to be an asset with a value greater than zero, depending on the circumstances.

Maybe. But then again cap space is a valuable asset too so you do have to weigh that against a lousy contract.