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Nik the Trik said:Pick said:What does that stat mean really? Whoever it was that played all those games certainly didn't help the Leafs. So what does the stat mean.....absolutely nothing
It means that the scouts aren't to blame for the bad decisions management makes once those players are drafted.
Pick said:I agree that the bigger problem lies elsewhere in the organization but Biggs was a bad pick....so was Schenn and after 4 years, Kadri still hasn't shown that he could be the top center Leafs were expected him to be.Also, although its too early to tell, I believe time will prove that Gauthier was not 1st round material. Percy? Again too early to tell, but will probably be OK for a late first rounder.
Reilly and Nylander look like good picks, but that's only two out of the last 6 and that's assuming they will meet expectations - so far none have. That's a horrible record for a team that had the advantage of picking relatively high due to low finishes.
Nik the Trik said:Pick said:I agree that the bigger problem lies elsewhere in the organization but Biggs was a bad pick....so was Schenn and after 4 years, Kadri still hasn't shown that he could be the top center Leafs were expected him to be.Also, although its too early to tell, I believe time will prove that Gauthier was not 1st round material. Percy? Again too early to tell, but will probably be OK for a late first rounder.
Reilly and Nylander look like good picks, but that's only two out of the last 6 and that's assuming they will meet expectations - so far none have. That's a horrible record for a team that had the advantage of picking relatively high due to low finishes.
I generally think that 1st round picks don't reflect too heavily on an amateur scouting group. I typically think that's a GM's responsibility. I think they provide info, but 1st rounders will be scouted by a GM and the ultimate decision will be a GM's.
I also think you're kind of misrepresenting the team's draft record. Despite what you think Kadri was expected to be it's pretty hard to look at that draft and see anyone they definitely should have taken over him at that spot. Outside of Ryan O'Reilly, there isn't anyone else in that draft class who was taken after Kadri and remotely resembles a "top centre" so if that's what they were looking for with that pick, they more or less did as well as possible.
Then you have Biggs, Percy and Gauthier who admittedly aren't great but weren't high draft picks either. Lots of teams struggle to turn picks in the 20's into good players.
Finally you have Schenn who it's hard to get around him looking like a bad pick but what I think is undeniable about him is that he was a consensus top 5 pick. Nobody was surprised by the pick. He was acclaimed as a player deserving of that draft spot. That doesn't absolve Fletcher and the staff for it but to me Schenn is more an example of how scouting will never be an exact science rather than any failures of an individual scout.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Nik the Trik said:Pick said:I agree that the bigger problem lies elsewhere in the organization but Biggs was a bad pick....so was Schenn and after 4 years, Kadri still hasn't shown that he could be the top center Leafs were expected him to be.Also, although its too early to tell, I believe time will prove that Gauthier was not 1st round material. Percy? Again too early to tell, but will probably be OK for a late first rounder.
Reilly and Nylander look like good picks, but that's only two out of the last 6 and that's assuming they will meet expectations - so far none have. That's a horrible record for a team that had the advantage of picking relatively high due to low finishes.
I generally think that 1st round picks don't reflect too heavily on an amateur scouting group. I typically think that's a GM's responsibility. I think they provide info, but 1st rounders will be scouted by a GM and the ultimate decision will be a GM's.
I also think you're kind of misrepresenting the team's draft record. Despite what you think Kadri was expected to be it's pretty hard to look at that draft and see anyone they definitely should have taken over him at that spot. Outside of Ryan O'Reilly, there isn't anyone else in that draft class who was taken after Kadri and remotely resembles a "top centre" so if that's what they were looking for with that pick, they more or less did as well as possible.
Then you have Biggs, Percy and Gauthier who admittedly aren't great but weren't high draft picks either. Lots of teams struggle to turn picks in the 20's into good players.
Finally you have Schenn who it's hard to get around him looking like a bad pick but what I think is undeniable about him is that he was a consensus top 5 pick. Nobody was surprised by the pick. He was acclaimed as a player deserving of that draft spot. That doesn't absolve Fletcher and the staff for it but to me Schenn is more an example of how scouting will never be an exact science rather than any failures of an individual scout.
This is true. I remember some scouts saying he was the best defensive prospect in the last 25 years. The next Pronger.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:Nik the Trik said:Pick said:I agree that the bigger problem lies elsewhere in the organization but Biggs was a bad pick....so was Schenn and after 4 years, Kadri still hasn't shown that he could be the top center Leafs were expected him to be.Also, although its too early to tell, I believe time will prove that Gauthier was not 1st round material. Percy? Again too early to tell, but will probably be OK for a late first rounder.
Reilly and Nylander look like good picks, but that's only two out of the last 6 and that's assuming they will meet expectations - so far none have. That's a horrible record for a team that had the advantage of picking relatively high due to low finishes.
I generally think that 1st round picks don't reflect too heavily on an amateur scouting group. I typically think that's a GM's responsibility. I think they provide info, but 1st rounders will be scouted by a GM and the ultimate decision will be a GM's.
I also think you're kind of misrepresenting the team's draft record. Despite what you think Kadri was expected to be it's pretty hard to look at that draft and see anyone they definitely should have taken over him at that spot. Outside of Ryan O'Reilly, there isn't anyone else in that draft class who was taken after Kadri and remotely resembles a "top centre" so if that's what they were looking for with that pick, they more or less did as well as possible.
Then you have Biggs, Percy and Gauthier who admittedly aren't great but weren't high draft picks either. Lots of teams struggle to turn picks in the 20's into good players.
Finally you have Schenn who it's hard to get around him looking like a bad pick but what I think is undeniable about him is that he was a consensus top 5 pick. Nobody was surprised by the pick. He was acclaimed as a player deserving of that draft spot. That doesn't absolve Fletcher and the staff for it but to me Schenn is more an example of how scouting will never be an exact science rather than any failures of an individual scout.
This is true. I remember some scouts saying he was the best defensive prospect in the last 25 years. The next Pronger.
Andy007 said:Gauthier, btw, was slated to be drafted right around where the Leafs picked on just about every single mock fantasy draft. Some had him going even earlier, actually.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:This is true. I remember some scouts saying he was the best defensive prospect in the last 25 years. The next Pronger.
CarltonTheBear said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:This is true. I remember some scouts saying he was the best defensive prospect in the last 25 years. The next Pronger.
Reminds me of a funny article from awhile back: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/11/26/5148828/chris-pronger-comparison-nhl-draft
Mckeen's Prospect Rankings editor called Schenn the "best defensive defenseman to come from the draft in maybe two decade"
- Schenn also possesses very underrated offensive abilities, as most people are inclined to think of him simply as a stay-at-home defender
- One scout noted "Schenn moves the puck with the kind of robotic composure most junior forwards won't see until they reach the pro ranks"
- He's drawn comparisons to Nashville's Shea Weber offensively
In a perfect world, he becomes: An elite shutdown defender capable of contributing 30-35 points and perennial all-star
Potvin29 said:I'm still waiting for my darkhorse, Mikhail Stefanovich. Once he gets motivated, watch out!