Of Nonis, Babcock & who the heck is going to be running this asylum on draft day

[cw]

Others have made a pitch about the money. He's going to get top dollar wherever he goes. He'd like to raise the bar for coaches I'm sure. But like the GM thing, it pales in comparison. Money is not the big deal some make of it in his decision process in part, because he's already worth millions.

I think you're underestimating what "top dollar" could legitimately be though. I don't know what the highest paid coach in the league makes, I assume it's one of Sutter, Quenneville or Babcock himself but I'd guess it's in the 2-4 million dollar a year range. So anywhere that Babcock goes he might very well stay in that upper echelon, sure, but what if the Leafs offer him 7.5 million a year? What if they offer him 9? If they're going to see a deep cut to their payroll as the rebuild goes on they could absorb that easily.

He's not the kind of guy to squeeze Ilitch, an owner who has been good to him, for every dime. So I do not think this is all about getting the max dollar from Detroit.

I don't think finding out your market value and giving your employer a chance to match it is in anyway "squeezing" them or being disloyal. I think it's about as loyal as you'll find in the top reaches of any business.

I think you and a bunch of folks are missing what the guy is about. He's not going to stoop to holding Ilitch to ransom. Ilitch isn't Harold Ballard. Babcock likes and respect the guy.

They don't have to go to the market to find out his "market value" in terms of his contract. Most accept he's at the top of that market right now with little debate. The problem is the Wings can't match his market value in terms of the talent he wants to coach. He'll leave the Wings with the ability to say to their fans "we matched the top offer ... but he still moved on ..."

He's not for sale in terms of mere dollars. He wants to win and the only reason he'd leave a great job in Detroit is because he doesn't think he has a very good chance of winning there any more because the top talent core is aged. Babcock has effectively said as much and it's true.

So the team that wins Babcock's services may win it with $9 mil contracts ... but not because it's a contract going to Babcock - it's because it's contracts going to top young $9 mil/yr talent for Babcock to coach to a Cup. The Wings don't have guys like that on the way up or as young guys on their roster and neither do the Leafs (sorry Kessel fans but I do not put Kessel in that class).

Babcock's coaching search is surfing to catch a young wave of talent for him to ride to a few more Cup finals appearances - that are not likely to happen in Toronto or Detroit any time soon.

Turn it around: if Detroit was a serious contender, would he even be talking with other teams at this juncture - risking his shot at coaching a true contender to a Cup? Detroit has made a couple of offers that I'm sure did not insult and probably offered to make him the top paid coach in the game. But since they cannot offer good quality Cup shots, he's looking at what is out there to help him win a Cup - just like Scotty Bowman did.

 

[Kin]

I think you and a bunch of folks are missing what the guy is about. He's not going to stoop to holding Ilitch to ransom. Ilitch isn't Harold Ballard. Babcock likes and respect the guy.

Which is why Babcock might just give him every opportunity to match what he can get on the open market which, again, is not holding someone to ransom. It is in no way mean or disreputable to give your employer a chance to match an outside offer if money is an important part of a decision someone makes. And no, taking dollars into account doesn't mean you're "for sale" and it's pretty comical that you of all people seem so disgusted by the idea that someone might be motivated by filthy, filthy lucre.

Ilitch is getting on in years and there's a lot of talk that people around him very much want to get the guy another championship before he opens that big pizza joint in the sky. Keeping Babcock on probably gives him the best chance at that and after looking at what they did against Tampa the idea of another deep playoff run isn't out of the question if they make some smart additions.

They don't have to go to the market to find out his "market value" in terms of his contract. Most accept he's at the top of that market right now with little debate.

I think ordinarily that might be true, sure, but in a situation like the one we're in we're not entirely sure what the market is. We've never had what amounts to a UFA superstar coach hit the market. Someone, who's universally regarded as one of the best in the business.

That's why getting into specifics is so valuable here. I can easily see a scenario where Babcock gets offered twice or even three times what another coach is making. I don't think that's something that can just be assumed.

He's not for sale in terms of mere dollars.

Sorry, do you know Mike Babcock? Are you his best friend? Or are you just trying to interpret the vague game of words being played out in the media like the rest of us?

Making definitive statements about what will or won't drive him is just silly at this point.

 

[caver]

My 2 cents.... I think Babcock is out of Detroit. Asking to speak to other teams seems like a sign that he wants a new challenge. If he gets a pitch that excites him I'm guessing he is gone..

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Others have made a pitch about the money. He's going to get top dollar wherever he goes. He'd like to raise the bar for coaches I'm sure. But like the GM thing, it pales in comparison. Money is not the big deal some make of it in his decision process in part, because he's already worth millions.

I think you're underestimating what "top dollar" could legitimately be though. I don't know what the highest paid coach in the league makes, I assume it's one of Sutter, Quenneville or Babcock himself but I'd guess it's in the 2-4 million dollar a year range. So anywhere that Babcock goes he might very well stay in that upper echelon, sure, but what if the Leafs offer him 7.5 million a year? What if they offer him 9? If they're going to see a deep cut to their payroll as the rebuild goes on they could absorb that easily.

He's not the kind of guy to squeeze Ilitch, an owner who has been good to him, for every dime. So I do not think this is all about getting the max dollar from Detroit.

I don't think finding out your market value and giving your employer a chance to match it is in anyway "squeezing" them or being disloyal. I think it's about as loyal as you'll find in the top reaches of any business.

I think you and a bunch of folks are missing what the guy is about. He's not going to stoop to holding Ilitch to ransom. Ilitch isn't Harold Ballard. Babcock likes and respect the guy.

They don't have to go to the market to find out his "market value" in terms of his contract. Most accept he's at the top of that market right now with little debate. The problem is the Wings can't match his market value in terms of the talent he wants to coach. He'll leave the Wings with the ability to say to their fans "we matched the top offer ... but he still moved on ..."

He's not for sale in terms of mere dollars. He wants to win and the only reason he'd leave a great job in Detroit is because he doesn't think he has a very good chance of winning there any more because the top talent core is aged. Babcock has effectively said as much and it's true.

So the team that wins Babcock's services may win it with $9 mil contracts ... but not because it's a contract going to Babcock - it's because it's contracts going to top young $9 mil/yr talent for Babcock to coach to a Cup. The Wings don't have guys like that on the way up or as young guys on their roster and neither do the Leafs (sorry Kessel fans but I do not put Kessel in that class).

Babcock's coaching search is surfing to catch a young wave of talent for him to ride to a few more Cup finals appearances - that are not likely to happen in Toronto or Detroit any time soon.

Turn it around: if Detroit was a serious contender, would he even be talking with other teams at this juncture - risking his shot at coaching a true contender to a Cup? Detroit has made a couple of offers that I'm sure did not insult and probably offered to make him the top paid coach in the game. But since they cannot offer good quality Cup shots, he's looking at what is out there to help him win a Cup - just like Scotty Bowman did.

I think you're looking at it wrong. You seem to think this would be a slight by Babcock.

I think the Wings/Illitch know they have a very special commodity on their hands and have likely proposed the current scenario as a reward of sorts to Babcock.

I think he'll be Detroit coach next yer and for the forseeable future.

 

[moon111]

Leafs will get Babcock, and do well enough to make the playoffs, and get eliminated.  Making sure the Leaf's legacy of never drafting a star player stays true.

 

[Highlander]

I think the Caveman is on the money. Life is more than dollars, a guy like Babcock wants a challenge, the next new thing, what does he have left to prove in Detroit?  Looks like they will have their own small rebuild going into effect with the older stars getting?.well older.

 

[Kin]

Life is more than dollars

On PTS last night they were reporting that the deal Babcock is looking for is said to be in the 5 year/25 million dollar range. If you figure that he's been coaching in the NHL for 12 years and probably earning less than half of that per year on average, you're talking about almost doubling his NHL earnings with his next contract.This isn't a player coming off a 90 million dollar contract. This is Babcock's probably one chance to really hit the jackpot.

a guy like Babcock wants a challenge, the next new thing, what does he have left to prove in Detroit?

Why are people talking about Babcock like he's Phil Jackson with more rings than fingers? He's won a single title. One. Since losing one of the best defensemen of all time, he's won a single playoff round in three years. Right now there's really nothing in the way of concrete evidence that he's a better coach than Quenneville or Hitchcock and I think it might be fair to say Sutter's resume is more impressive at this point. Winning another cup in Detroit would prove a ton.

Everywhere he could go would represent a challenge. Realistically the best offer he could get in terms of talent already on a team is St. Louis but if winning a cup were easy in St. Louis then Ken Hitchcock would have done it.

 

[Highlander]

I would choose Quenville in a heartbeat, looks like Phil J (in his LA days)  he will be with the Hawks for a long time to come.

 

[caver]

No one seems to know just what situation works for Babcock ( and his wife...)...it will be interesting to see how it plays out..

 

[Redleaf]

Babcock is a good fit with the 'new' Leafs, and the top to bottom analytics system Shanny has put into place. I don't think its a far reach to suggest he's probably leaning toward coming to Toronto, but hey, I've been wrong before so..

 

[Tigger]

Doubt it, the Leafs are a long, long way from contending and it seems unlikely that money is the driving factor for him, Edmonton or St. Louis seem way more plausible. If Gallant wasn't well seated in Florida they could be a consideration as well.

 

[Redleaf]

Doubt it, the Leafs are a long, long way from contending and it seems unlikely that money is the driving factor for him, Edmonton or St. Louis seem way more plausible. If Gallant wasn't well seated in Florida they could be a consideration as well.

Where did I say anything about money in that post?

 

[Tigger]

Doubt it, the Leafs are a long, long way from contending and it seems unlikely that money is the driving factor for him, Edmonton or St. Louis seem way more plausible. If Gallant wasn't well seated in Florida they could be a consideration as well.

Where did I say anything about money in that post?

You didn't but it seems the only commodity that the Leafs could realistically offer.

 

[Redleaf]

Doubt it, the Leafs are a long, long way from contending and it seems unlikely that money is the driving factor for him, Edmonton or St. Louis seem way more plausible. If Gallant wasn't well seated in Florida they could be a consideration as well.

Where did I say anything about money in that post?

You didn't but it seems the only commodity that the Leafs could realistically offer.

The commodity would be a working environment where he has more of a say on what makes up the on-ice product. Whether that's a semi-level GM position or a coach with more authority. It's an opportunity where he would ultimately have more power, AND more money. Let's not leave out the lure and opportunity of bringing a cup to the largest hockey fanbase on the planet.

 

[Highlander]

Good points Redleaf and the money is not in question, he will be paid a boatload wherever he does end up. So with Money out of the equation why in gods name would he not want the challenge of taking this train wreck of a team that once set the standard for excellence (yes in another galaxy far far away) and putting them back on track, very similar to what Q did in Chicago.
Obviously from my morning paper read today, that Hunter and Dubas are scouting more games than anyone else, they are really out there in a huge way. Babcock gets a GM position which would probably be more like a semi GM with Hunter and Dubas as he right and left arms.

 

[Kin]

Good points Redleaf and the money is not in question, he will be paid a boatload wherever he does end up.

That logic applies just as well to players and most players seem to still want to make the most they can.

 

[Highlander]

Of course, but Detroit has said they will match any serious offer cash wise, so now the decision is based on what he wants his legacy to be. He is not yet in the Pantheon, but he must have a fire in his gut to join the true legends.
I truly believe this can only be done with an Original Six team (at least until our generation dies out).

 

[Kin]

Of course, but Detroit has said they will match any serious offer cash wise, so now the decision is based on what he wants his legacy to be.

Where has Detroit said that?

 

[Highlander]

I believe that is what has been reported, think I saw it in an article the other day.

 

[Kin]

I believe that is what has been reported, think I saw it in an article the other day.

This is from two days ago:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=766946

Nowhere does it mention matching offers. It's certainly not the team's official position.