Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre

[RobDM]

Kadri has taken to Twitter to chirp both McKenzie, and also David Alter from FAN 590:
http://www.tmlfans.ca/blogs/9146-kadri-negotations-bridge-or-troubled-water

 

[bustaheims]

At least Bobo can take things in stride.

TSNBobMcKenzie: BTW, no one asked, but "Bobo's" personal take on where Kadri negotiations with TOR are likely headed:

TSNBobMcKenzie: As long as TOR holds firm on wanting 2 yr bridge deal, Kadri has no leverage other than witholding services and hoping his absence impacts.

TSNBobMcKenzie: Failing that, Kadri makes case for closer to Matt Duchene $ ($3.5M per) than P.K. Subban $ ($2.875M per). We'll see if TOR moves off that #.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I'm fairly certain that hold-outs usually don't result in a better deal for the player. With that said, without Kadri our centre depth is pretty weak. We'd essentially be relying on Colborne to step up and fill his second line spot. If that doesn't work and we stumble out the gate it could easily be the difference between us making and missing the playoffs.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't have the facts to back this up, but I'm fairly certain that hold-outs usually don't result in a better deal for the player.

It can when offer sheets come into play, but, outside of that, yeah, it feels like it doesn't tend to go well for the player.

 

[hockeyfan1]

McKenzie saying Leafs and Kadri not in same ballpark. Kadri wants Tavares money (6 yrs at 5.5ish) and Leafs want a Subban type deal.

I think we should trade Kadri for Tavares straight up.

Tavares in a T.O. jersey?  Anytime!!!    Can imagine how much Tavares would mean to the Leafs in terms of what he would bring.  A perfect fit!

 

[mr grieves]

At least Bobo can take things in stride.

TSNBobMcKenzie: BTW, no one asked, but "Bobo's" personal take on where Kadri negotiations with TOR are likely headed:

TSNBobMcKenzie: As long as TOR holds firm on wanting 2 yr bridge deal, Kadri has no leverage other than witholding services and hoping his absence impacts.

TSNBobMcKenzie: Failing that, Kadri makes case for closer to Matt Duchene $ ($3.5M per) than P.K. Subban $ ($2.875M per). We'll see if TOR moves off that #.

So now we're up to two reporters who've spoken with Leafs management and reported what they believe to be Kadri's side's initial demand. Any doubts that this is true? Are both Alter and Bob being played by MLSE? Or is Kadri overusing social media? -- I don't know why management would spread lies about the offers of a player they're negotiating with, but am admittedly naive about these things and am happy to be enlightened....

 

[Britishbulldog]

I think that Kadri being compared to Couture in Rob's blog is the best one yet and much more accurate then the others that I have seen elsewhere.

Couture even scored 5 goals in his 1st season that he split between the AHL and the NHL like Kadri and then Couture made the team the following season, like Kadri did last year, scoring over 30 goals.

After Couture's offensively successful 2nd season, he signed a 2 year $2.875 bridge contract. This year he cashed in with a long contract at $6 MIL per year.

 

[Redleaf]

That strikes me as overrating the general importance of a training camp. So long as Kadri is keeping fit I don't think it matters much.

I was thinking the same thing. Fitness isn't the issue it was in the 80s and before. It's a year-round thing for players these days. Training camp is more about getting into the rhythm of the games and getting your timing down and such, and, really, if Kadri can get there by the last week of camp or so, he'll be close enough to the rest of the pack in those areas that there shouldn't be any noticeable difference once the season gets going. Even if he misses camp completely, if he's under contract for opening night, he won't really be that far behind anyone else. It only really starts to become an issue if he's still not signed late into October and beyond.

I guess I put more stock into players having a good, full training camp to get up to speed before the season kicks in.

 

[caver]

Randy Carlyle agrees with you.

 

[Corn Flake]

I guess I put more stock into players having a good, full training camp to get up to speed before the season kicks in.

going from memory... we see quite often where players who don't attend camp often deal with injuries, are a step or two behind, underperform, etc.  Actually, it's more about missing the early regular season. If say these guys sign on Nov 1. then they will be catching up all year.

 

[Kin]

going from memory... we see quite often where players who don't attend camp often deal with injuries, are a step or two behind, underperform, etc.  Actually, it's more about missing the early regular season. If say these guys sign on Nov 1. then they will be catching up all year.

That strikes me as being more a result of a confirmation bias where players who don't attend camp and have injuries or underperform have it attributed to missing camp without any sort of hard data behind it. Certainly struggling with injuries or underperforming aren't limited to players who miss camp so isolated incidents don't really tell us much.

Turris, Subban and O'Reilly are all three recent examples of players missing camp/the start of the regular season and playing really well/not struggling with injuries.

 

[Champ Kind]

I think that Kadri being compared to Couture in Rob's blog is the best one yet and much more accurate then the others that I have seen elsewhere.

Couture even scored 5 goals in his 1st season that he split between the AHL and the NHL like Kadri and then Couture made the team the following season, like Kadri did last year, scoring over 30 goals.

After Couture's offensively successful 2nd season, he signed a 2 year $2.875 bridge contract. This year he cashed in with a long contract at $6 MIL per year.

Seems to me that for every 'reasonable' 2'nd contract, bridge-type deal, there is a second contract mega-deal.  So, while I agree with you and others, if I'm Kadri, why would I default to the Duschene, Subban, and Couture contracts when I could point to Skinner, Hall, and Seguin?  Add, truthfully, is he wrong in doing so?  There is, after all, a pretty strong precedent that's been set.  And while we can argue all day long about 'taking one for the team' and understanding the Leafs salary environment, if I'm an athlete with a finite number of years to earn I would at least try to maximize what I can make.

I'm wondering when the offer sheet rumours will start.  I mean, a team with some space could put together an O'Reilly type deal and really force the Leafs hand. 

 

[Zee]

I think that Kadri being compared to Couture in Rob's blog is the best one yet and much more accurate then the others that I have seen elsewhere.

Couture even scored 5 goals in his 1st season that he split between the AHL and the NHL like Kadri and then Couture made the team the following season, like Kadri did last year, scoring over 30 goals.

After Couture's offensively successful 2nd season, he signed a 2 year $2.875 bridge contract. This year he cashed in with a long contract at $6 MIL per year.

Seems to me that for every 'reasonable' 2'nd contract, bridge-type deal, there is a second contract mega-deal.  So, while I agree with you and others, if I'm Kadri, why would I default to the Duschene, Subban, and Couture contracts when I could point to Skinner, Hall, and Seguin?  Add, truthfully, is he wrong in doing so?  There is, after all, a pretty strong precedent that's been set.  And while we can argue all day long about 'taking one for the team' and understanding the Leafs salary environment, if I'm an athlete with a finite number of years to earn I would at least try to maximize what I can make.

I'm wondering when the offer sheet rumours will start.  I mean, a team with some space could put together an O'Reilly type deal and really force the Leafs hand.

The guys you brought up, Seguin, Skinner and Hall all played full seasons and put up decent amounts of points before hitting the big contract.  Skinner was rookie of the year for crying out loud, Seguin had put up 99 points in 2 seasons before his contract, and Hall was the #1 overall pick whom the Oilers wish to build around.  Kadri has one 48 game season under his belt where he played great.

 

[Champ Kind]

The guys you brought up, Seguin, Skinner and Hall all played full seasons and put up decent amounts of points before hitting the big contract.  Skinner was rookie of the year for crying out loud, Seguin had put up 99 points in 2 seasons before his contract, and Hall was the #1 overall pick whom the Oilers wish to build around.  Kadri has one 48 game season under his belt where he played great.

But the point I'm making is this: there's probably enough similarity among all six that, if you're Nazm and his management team, you could probably make a case to say that there's enough similarity among them.  I mean, I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating directly with my employer I would try to get as much as I could and I would point to other similar employees. 

I'm also not saying that I think he deserves the Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Eberle (there's another one) money and term.  I just think that looking at this situation and saying he's delusional or out of his mind isn't really fair or realistic.

 

[Tigger]

I'm wondering when the offer sheet rumours will start.  I mean, a team with some space could put together an O'Reilly type deal and really force the Leafs hand.

Some team could but I think many of the teams that have the space and the will would also be looking at giving up a decent shot at a pretty juicy first round pick + in exchange, doubt it happens.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The guys you brought up, Seguin, Skinner and Hall all played full seasons and put up decent amounts of points before hitting the big contract.  Skinner was rookie of the year for crying out loud, Seguin had put up 99 points in 2 seasons before his contract, and Hall was the #1 overall pick whom the Oilers wish to build around.  Kadri has one 48 game season under his belt where he played great.

But the point I'm making is this: there's probably enough similarity among all six that, if you're Nazm and his management team, you could probably make a case to say that there's enough similarity among them.  I mean, I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating directly with my employer I would try to get as much as I could and I would point to other similar employees. 

I'm also not saying that I think he deserves the Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Eberle (there's another one) money and term.  I just think that looking at this situation and saying he's delusional or out of his mind isn't really fair or realistic.

Just because I ask for the moon doesn't mean I'm not delusional in doing so. I would be within my rights to do so, as is Kadri, but it doesn't mean that we have to agree that it's a deserved pay raise.

That's all anyone is really doing here; Disagreeing with Kadri being worth that much money.

None of us are blaming him for asking, we just don't see how he's worth it.

 

[Champ Kind]

The guys you brought up, Seguin, Skinner and Hall all played full seasons and put up decent amounts of points before hitting the big contract.  Skinner was rookie of the year for crying out loud, Seguin had put up 99 points in 2 seasons before his contract, and Hall was the #1 overall pick whom the Oilers wish to build around.  Kadri has one 48 game season under his belt where he played great.

But the point I'm making is this: there's probably enough similarity among all six that, if you're Nazm and his management team, you could probably make a case to say that there's enough similarity among them.  I mean, I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating directly with my employer I would try to get as much as I could and I would point to other similar employees. 

I'm also not saying that I think he deserves the Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Eberle (there's another one) money and term.  I just think that looking at this situation and saying he's delusional or out of his mind isn't really fair or realistic.

Just because I ask for the moon doesn't mean I'm not delusional in doing so. I would be within my rights to do so, as is Kadri, but it doesn't mean that we have to agree that it's a deserved pay raise.

That's all anyone is really doing here; Disagreeing with Kadri being worth that much money.

None of us are blaming him for asking, we just don't see how he's worth it.

And all I'm saying is that there is precedent to support what he is asking for.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The guys you brought up, Seguin, Skinner and Hall all played full seasons and put up decent amounts of points before hitting the big contract.  Skinner was rookie of the year for crying out loud, Seguin had put up 99 points in 2 seasons before his contract, and Hall was the #1 overall pick whom the Oilers wish to build around.  Kadri has one 48 game season under his belt where he played great.

But the point I'm making is this: there's probably enough similarity among all six that, if you're Nazm and his management team, you could probably make a case to say that there's enough similarity among them.  I mean, I don't know about you, but if I was negotiating directly with my employer I would try to get as much as I could and I would point to other similar employees. 

I'm also not saying that I think he deserves the Hall, Seguin, Skinner, and Eberle (there's another one) money and term.  I just think that looking at this situation and saying he's delusional or out of his mind isn't really fair or realistic.

Just because I ask for the moon doesn't mean I'm not delusional in doing so. I would be within my rights to do so, as is Kadri, but it doesn't mean that we have to agree that it's a deserved pay raise.

That's all anyone is really doing here; Disagreeing with Kadri being worth that much money.

None of us are blaming him for asking, we just don't see how he's worth it.

And all I'm saying is that there is precedent to support what he is asking for.

There's precedent of a player that was unable to stick in the NHL until the season before his contract was up and got a 6 year contract worth 5.5 million a year?

 

[Kin]

There's precedent of a player that was unable to stick in the NHL until the season before his contract was up and got a 6 year contract worth 5.5 million a year?

There's precedent for a player with a comparable level of experience and scoring output getting that kind of an extension, yes.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Who?